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ac freezing with thermostat off

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ac freezing with thermostat off alexpio 06-19-2008
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Posted by on June 21, 2008, 11:36 am

>On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:41:05 -0400, .p.jm wrote:
>
>>
>>>I'd be curious what brand unit you have.
>>>Some of the old GE's & Tranes use separate poles on the contactors so
>>>its possible for the compressor to run without the fan if the contractor
>>>goes bad or sticks like pjm noted.
>>
>>         How about 'any heat pump' ? :-)
>
>Not really, there are only a few residential heat pumps or straight airs
>that you could see a compressor running without the condenser fan in a
>stuck contactor scenario. On a dual pole usually both contacts have to
>close for the compressor to run

        True. And if it's welded, often both contacts are made ( even
though only one is stuck ).

>which would also have to make the fan run.

        Depends on the fan relay, which of course is there
specifically to allow the compressor to run with no fan ( in defrost
).

>The exceptions I can think of is some old GE's & Tranes.
>On a single pole there's no question they both have to run.

        Yes, there is great question, because that's not so.

        If the unit is called 'off' by the stat, and both the
contactor and the fan relay are called 'open' by stat control ( via
the control board seeing no cooling call ), but the contactor is
welded - you have compressor with no fan.


>I'm not counting the possibility of something wrong with the fan motor or
>a defrost board keeping it from coming on because the OP said everything
>would run fine until the unit shut off.



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Posted by Gary on June 21, 2008, 12:20 pm
>         If the unit is called 'off' by the stat, and both the
> contactor and the fan relay are called 'open' by stat control ( via
> the control board seeing no cooling call ), but the contactor is
> welded - you have compressor with no fan.

Remember we're talking about a residential heat pump.
The condenser fan relay is normally closed whether it be built into the
defrost board or a separate control & only opens on a call for defrost.
If you manually push in the contactor while the indoor thermostat is off
both your fan & compressor will run. There are some rare wirings I've seen
where one line is always hot to the compressor & fan motor & pole one of
the contactor wires to the compressor & pole two of the contactor wires to
the fan motor. In that case if one pole sticks it can cause one to work
without the other. That being said you're probably right about it being
a stuck contactor but I wouldn't be surprised if there were a second
problem.

Posted by on June 21, 2008, 1:15 pm

>>         If the unit is called 'off' by the stat, and both the
>> contactor and the fan relay are called 'open' by stat control ( via
>> the control board seeing no cooling call ), but the contactor is
>> welded - you have compressor with no fan.
>
>Remember we're talking about a residential heat pump.
>The condenser fan relay is normally closed whether it be built into the
>defrost board or a separate control & only opens on a call for defrost.

        Depends on brand. Some do, some don't.

>If you manually push in the contactor while the indoor thermostat is off
>both your fan & compressor will run. There are some rare wirings I've seen
>where one line is always hot to the compressor & fan motor & pole one of
>the contactor wires to the compressor & pole two of the contactor wires to
>the fan motor. In that case if one pole sticks it can cause one to work
>without the other. That being said you're probably right about it being
>a stuck contactor but I wouldn't be surprised if there were a second
>problem.

        Nor would I :-)


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Posted by Stormin Mormon on June 20, 2008, 7:22 am
That's really strange. On the central AC units I've serviced, the condensor
fan and the compressor are on the same relay, so they turn on and off at the
same time. If the condensor fan turns off, then the compressor would
overheat, in very short ammount of time. I had to replace an outdoor unit
one time, for a guy whose condensor fan would run only if he pushed it with
a stick.

--
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Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


On Jun 19, 8:34 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
> I've never seen a thermostat on a freon line. May we have some more
> information? Line bypassing the thermostat? New one, to me.
>
> It sounds like a controls, relay, and switching problem.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>



Maybe I didn't explain the problem clearly enough. I meant to say that
no matter what the temperature setting of the thermostat inside the
house is, the compressor will still run, while the condenser fan will
stop once the preset temperature inside the house is reached.
Basically the compressor does not respond to the thermostat setting,
while the condenser fan does, and as soon as the fan stops spinning, I
see ice forming around the line that goes inside the house to the
evaporator. This is what I meant by saying "bypassing the thermostat".
I agree with you about the nature of the problem, and I was hoping
that somebody else had experienced something similar and could be
more specific about what to look for.

> Thanks again for any help/suggestion.
>
> Alex



Posted by KJPRO on June 20, 2008, 11:45 am

> That's really strange. On the central AC units I've serviced, the
> condensor
> fan and the compressor are on the same relay, so they turn on and off at
> the
> same time. If the condensor fan turns off, then the compressor would
> overheat, in very short ammount of time. I had to replace an outdoor unit
> one time, for a guy whose condensor fan would run only if he pushed it
> with
> a stick.


You're really showing your ignorance the last few days...
Compressors don't rely on the condenser fan for cooling purposes!
I suppose you never saw a Rheem unit were the compressor is to the
side??????



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