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Posted by Jon Clark on June 7, 2007, 12:05 am
Greetings,
I am badly in need of opinions. Although I have seen this issue discussed in
several threads, I still am uncertain as to which direction to head.
I recently replaced our AC. At the time of the quoting process, my house was
calced at 31/2 ton (1800sf, ss, 100+ summers). Upon selecting the
contractor, I asked for the 16 seer. I was told it only came in 4 ton, but
since it was 2 stage, it would not be oversized for my house. I went with
it. 2 weeks after install, I was on the manufactures web site and saw that
the unit was not 2 stage. I presented this to the rep and he got back to me
admitting he had made a mistake and that brand did not have a 4 ton 2 stage.
Although, he claims they will make it right, he feels that the 4 ton single
stage will be OK for our house/area (of course). So far we have not had
enough hot weather to heavily test the unit. We have had a few warm days
where we ran it for a few hours. I did notice it being slightly humid, as
far as what constitutes a short run cycle, I am uncertain. It didn't seem to
start/stop excessively.
So, should I press for a change out now, wait for hotter weather before
deciding, or is the difference between 3.5-4 ton so marginal that there is
likely no problem? Thanks in advance for any advice.
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Posted by udarrell on June 7, 2007, 11:26 am
Jon Clark wrote:
show/hide quoted text
>Greetings,
>I am badly in need of opinions. Although I have seen this issue discussed in
>several threads, I still am uncertain as to which direction to head.
>I recently replaced our AC. At the time of the quoting process, my house was
>calced at 31/2 ton (1800sf, ss, 100+ summers). Upon selecting the
>contractor, I asked for the 16 seer. I was told it only came in 4 ton, but
>since it was 2 stage, it would not be oversized for my house. I went with
>it. 2 weeks after install, I was on the manufactures web site and saw that
>the unit was not 2 stage. I presented this to the rep and he got back to me
>admitting he had made a mistake and that brand did not have a 4 ton 2 stage.
>Although, he claims they will make it right, he feels that the 4 ton single
>stage will be OK for our house/area (of course). So far we have not had
>enough hot weather to heavily test the unit. We have had a few warm days
>where we ran it for a few hours. I did notice it being slightly humid, as
>far as what constitutes a short run cycle, I am uncertain. It didn't seem to
>start/stop excessively.
>So, should I press for a change out now, wait for hotter weather before
>deciding, or is the difference between 3.5-4 ton so marginal that there is
>likely no problem? Thanks in advance for any advice.
>
Concerning the condenser, it is unthinkable that he could have made such
an error in claiming he was installing a two stage unit!
I need to know what major city you live near to get the Summer Design
Conditions there!
Here in SW WI with Heat Indexes up to 104, there are 2400-sq.ft. homes
with 2-ton units cooling them perfectly.
You need a manual J (heatload sizing) done, also manual D (duct sizing),
& then a manual S (unit Sizing) done, even then both tend to oversize to
some degree.
http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_btuh_duct_sizing_air_conditioning_systems.html
At the top Click On: Basic AC Overview - "Specifications vs. Reality" -
udarrell
--
WISDOM PRINCIPLE DIRECTED EMPOWERMENT COMMUNICATIONS -
THE REAL POLITICAL ISSUES and WISDOM BASED PEOPLE EMPOWERMENT
http://www.udarrell.com/
http://www.udarrell.com/my_pages2.htm
http://www.udarrell.com/recognizing_real_enemies.html ***
http://jesuschristsavior.net/Beatitudes.html
Reality Is Not An Easy Thing To Be Confronted With, or to Accept!
|
|
Posted by Jon Clark on June 7, 2007, 8:52 pm
show/hide quoted text
> Jon Clark wrote:
>>Greetings,
>>I am badly in need of opinions. Although I have seen this issue discussed
>>in several threads, I still am uncertain as to which direction to head.
>>I recently replaced our AC. At the time of the quoting process, my house
>>was calced at 31/2 ton (1800sf, ss, 100+ summers). Upon selecting the
>>contractor, I asked for the 16 seer. I was told it only came in 4 ton, but
>>since it was 2 stage, it would not be oversized for my house. I went with
>>it. 2 weeks after install, I was on the manufactures web site and saw that
>>the unit was not 2 stage. I presented this to the rep and he got back to
>>me admitting he had made a mistake and that brand did not have a 4 ton 2
>>stage. Although, he claims they will make it right, he feels that the 4
>>ton single stage will be OK for our house/area (of course). So far we have
>>not had enough hot weather to heavily test the unit. We have had a few
>>warm days where we ran it for a few hours. I did notice it being slightly
>>humid, as far as what constitutes a short run cycle, I am uncertain. It
>>didn't seem to start/stop excessively.
>>So, should I press for a change out now, wait for hotter weather before
>>deciding, or is the difference between 3.5-4 ton so marginal that there is
>>likely no problem? Thanks in advance for any advice.
> Concerning the condenser, it is unthinkable that he could have made such
> an error in claiming he was installing a two stage unit!
> I need to know what major city you live near to get the Summer Design
> Conditions there!
> Here in SW WI with Heat Indexes up to 104, there are 2400-sq.ft. homes
> with 2-ton units cooling them perfectly.
> You need a manual J (heatload sizing) done, also manual D (duct sizing), &
> then a manual S (unit Sizing) done, even then both tend to oversize to
> some degree.
>
http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_btuh_duct_sizing_air_conditioning_systems.html
show/hide quoted text
> At the top Click On: Basic AC Overview - "Specifications vs. Reality" -
> udarrell
> --
> WISDOM PRINCIPLE DIRECTED EMPOWERMENT COMMUNICATIONS - THE REAL POLITICAL
> ISSUES and WISDOM BASED PEOPLE EMPOWERMENT http://www.udarrell.com/
> http://www.udarrell.com/my_pages2.htm
> http://www.udarrell.com/recognizing_real_enemies.html ***
> http://jesuschristsavior.net/Beatitudes.html Reality Is Not An Easy Thing
> To Be Confronted With, or to Accept!
Thanks for the response. I live near Sacramento CA though we are typically
3-5 degrees warmer. I had 3 different calcs down showing 3.5 ton, but of
course that doesn't mean any of them were correct. I am leaning towards
having them put a 3.5 ton in, but I was hoping that someone would show
reason as to why it would be pointless. Do you know if he was full of crap
in his opinion that a 2 stage 4 ton would indeed be a good fit? He basically
explianed that most of the time the AC would be running at a 2 ton level
except for the middle of the summer where the 4 ton would be needed. Thanks.
|
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Posted by udarrell on June 7, 2007, 11:37 pm
Jon Clark wrote:
show/hide quoted text
>
>>Jon Clark wrote:
>>
>>>Greetings,
>>>I am badly in need of opinions. Although I have seen this issue discussed
>>>in several threads, I still am uncertain as to which direction to head.
>>>I recently replaced our AC. At the time of the quoting process, my house
>>>was calced at 31/2 ton (1800sf, ss, 100+ summers). Upon selecting the
>>>contractor, I asked for the 16 seer. I was told it only came in 4 ton, but
>>>since it was 2 stage, it would not be oversized for my house. I went with
>>>it. 2 weeks after install, I was on the manufactures web site and saw that
>>>the unit was not 2 stage. I presented this to the rep and he got back to
>>>me admitting he had made a mistake and that brand did not have a 4 ton 2
>>>stage. Although, he claims they will make it right, he feels that the 4
>>>ton single stage will be OK for our house/area (of course). So far we have
>>>not had enough hot weather to heavily test the unit. We have had a few
>>>warm days where we ran it for a few hours. I did notice it being slightly
>>>humid, as far as what constitutes a short run cycle, I am uncertain. It
>>>didn't seem to start/stop excessively.
>>>So, should I press for a change out now, wait for hotter weather before
>>>deciding, or is the difference between 3.5-4 ton so marginal that there is
>>>likely no problem? Thanks in advance for any advice.
>>>
>>Concerning the condenser, it is unthinkable that he could have made such
>>an error in claiming he was installing a two stage unit!
>>I need to know what major city you live near to get the Summer Design
>>Conditions there!
>>Here in SW WI with Heat Indexes up to 104, there are 2400-sq.ft. homes
>>with 2-ton units cooling them perfectly.
>>You need a manual J (heatload sizing) done, also manual D (duct sizing), &
>>then a manual S (unit Sizing) done, even then both tend to oversize to
>>some degree.
>>http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_btuh_duct_sizing_air_conditioning_systems.html
>>At the top Click On: Basic AC Overview - "Specifications vs. Reality" -
udarrell
show/hide quoted text
>>
>Thanks for the response. I live near Sacramento CA though we are typically
>3-5 degrees warmer. I had 3 different calcs down showing 3.5 ton, but of
>course that doesn't mean any of them were correct. I am leaning towards
>having them put a 3.5 ton in, but I was hoping that someone would show
>reason as to why it would be pointless. Do you know if he was full of crap
>in his opinion that a 2 stage 4 ton would indeed be a good fit? He basically
>explained that most of the time the AC would be running at a 2 ton level
>except for the middle of the summer where the 4 ton would be needed. Thanks.
>
Sacramento, CA Summer Design 98-F dry bulb 70-F wet bulb around only
25% Relative Humidity.
Even if it is 3-5 degrees hotter with that low a humidity the system
should bring the sensible temp down with ease unless you have extreme
heatload conditions.
We cannot do a manual J from here, however the experts claim the manual
J and S tend to oversize the systems.
I know nothing about your system ductwork, airflow, etc. Therefore, I'm
simply whistling dixie.
I use a mere half ton 6,000-BTUH room AC that cools perfectly the first
floor 3 rooms & a hallway, over 900-sq.ft. at 104 Heat Indexes!
900 / .5 ton = 1800 Sq.Ft per a ton of cooling in an old 1930's home,
come here on our hottest days and I will prove it to you! (Airflow!)
show/hide quoted text
(It's True.)
Below is an outstanding PDF "Basic AC Overview - Specifications vs Reality"
by John Proctor, P.E., Proctor Engineering Group, LTD:
HVAC TECH PERFORMANCE RATINGS
show/hide quoted text
<http://www.udarrell.com/ACBasicsProctor1.pdf> "AC Specs vs Reality"
PDF - Few are done Right!
DISCLAIMER:
I assume NO responsibility for the USE of any information I post on any
of my Web pages or in any NGs.
All HVAC/R work should always be done by a licensed Contractor &
properly licensed Techs! This information is only placed on these pages
for your understanding & communication with contractors & techs. This
information is also for the edification of Contractors and Techs. I am
NOT liable for anyone's screw-ups! - udarrell
--
WISDOM PRINCIPLE DIRECTED EMPOWERMENT COMMUNICATIONS -
THE REAL POLITICAL ISSUES and WISDOM BASED PEOPLE EMPOWERMENT
http://www.udarrell.com/
http://www.udarrell.com/my_pages2.htm
http://www.udarrell.com/recognizing_real_enemies.html ***
http://jesuschristsavior.net/Beatitudes.html
http://www.antiwar.com/ ***
Reality Is Not An Easy Thing To Be Confronted With, or to Accept!
|
|
Posted by udarrell on June 8, 2007, 8:55 am
Jon Clark wrote:
show/hide quoted text
>
>>Jon Clark wrote:
>>
>>>Greetings,
>>>I am badly in need of opinions. Although I have seen this issue discussed
>>>in several threads, I still am uncertain as to which direction to head.
>>>I recently replaced our AC. At the time of the quoting process, my house
>>>was calced at 31/2 ton (1800sf, ss, 100+ summers). Upon selecting the
>>>contractor, I asked for the 16 seer. I was told it only came in 4 ton, but
>>>since it was 2 stage, it would not be oversized for my house. I went with
>>>it. 2 weeks after install, I was on the manufactures web site and saw that
>>>the unit was not 2 stage. I presented this to the rep and he got back to
>>>me admitting he had made a mistake and that brand did not have a 4 ton 2
>>>stage. Although, he claims they will make it right, he feels that the 4
>>>ton single stage will be OK for our house/area (of course). So far we have
>>>not had enough hot weather to heavily test the unit. We have had a few
>>>warm days where we ran it for a few hours. I did notice it being slightly
>>>humid, as far as what constitutes a short run cycle, I am uncertain. It
>>>didn't seem to start/stop excessively.
>>>So, should I press for a change out now, wait for hotter weather before
>>>deciding, or is the difference between 3.5-4 ton so marginal that there is
>>>likely no problem? Thanks in advance for any advice.
>>>
>>Concerning the condenser, it is unthinkable that he could have made such
>>an error in claiming he was installing a two stage unit!
>>I need to know what major city you live near to get the Summer Design
>>Conditions there!
>>Here in SW WI with Heat Indexes up to 104, there are 2400-sq.ft. homes
>>with 2-ton units cooling them perfectly.
>>You need a manual J (heatload sizing) done, also manual D (duct sizing), &
>>then a manual S (unit Sizing) done, even then both tend to oversize to
>>some degree.
>>http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_btuh_duct_sizing_air_conditioning_systems.html
>>At the top Click On: Basic AC Overview - "Specifications vs. Reality" -
udarrell
show/hide quoted text
>>
>Thanks for the response. I live near Sacramento CA though we are typically
>3-5 degrees warmer. I had 3 different calcs down showing 3.5 ton, but of
>course that doesn't mean any of them were correct. I am leaning towards
>having them put a 3.5 ton in, but I was hoping that someone would show
>reason as to why it would be pointless. Do you know if he was full of crap
>in his opinion that a 2 stage 4 ton would indeed be a good fit? He basically
>explained that most of the time the AC would be running at a 2 ton level
>except for the middle of the summer where the 4 ton would be needed. Thanks.
>
Sacramento, CA Summer Design 98-F dry bulb 70-F wet bulb around only
25% Relative Humidity, 75-F indoors at 50%-RH.
Even if it is 3-5 degrees hotter with that low a humidity the system
should bring the sensible temp down with ease unless you have extreme
heatload conditions.
We cannot do a manual J from here, however the experts claim the manual
J and S tend to oversize the systems.
I know nothing about your system ductwork, airflow, etc. Therefore, I'm
simply whistling dixie.
I use a mere half ton 6,000-BTUH room AC that cools perfectly the first
floor 3 rooms & a hallway, 900-sq.ft. at 104 Heat Indexes! Even if we
reduced it to 800-sq.ft. it would be 800 / .5 = 1600-sq.ft per ton of
cooling. At 900-sq.ft. / .5 ton = 1800 Sq.Ft per a ton of cooling in an
old 1930's home. It says "cools rooms up to 225-sq.ft., not with my
techniques; it cools over 7 times that area with NO other AC running
anywhere in my home.
Come here on our hottest days and I will prove it to you! My brother
knows it is true, but we both can't believe it, it is unreal.
(Air Circulation & putting an optimal heatload on the evaporator coil!)
show/hide quoted text
(It's True.)
Below is an outstanding PDF "Basic AC Overview - Specifications vs Reality"
by John Proctor, P.E., Proctor Engineering Group, LTD:
HVAC TECH PERFORMANCE RATINGS
show/hide quoted text
<http://www.udarrell.com/ACBasicsProctor1.pdf> "AC Specs vs Reality"
PDF - Few are done Right!
A majority of ACs are oversized. When a system does not cool
sufficiently it is 'usually' due to other factors other than unit sizing!
DISCLAIMER:
I assume NO responsibility for the USE of any information I post on any
of my Web pages or in any NGs.
All HVAC/R work should always be done by a licensed Contractor &
properly licensed Techs! This information is only placed on these pages
for your understanding & communication with contractors & techs. This
information is also for the edification of Contractors and Techs. I am
NOT liable for anyone's screw-ups! - udarrell
--
WISDOM PRINCIPLE DIRECTED EMPOWERMENT COMMUNICATIONS -
THE REAL POLITICAL ISSUES and WISDOM BASED PEOPLE EMPOWERMENT
http://www.udarrell.com/
http://www.udarrell.com/my_pages2.htm
http://www.udarrell.com/recognizing_real_enemies.html ***
http://jesuschristsavior.net/Beatitudes.html
http://www.antiwar.com/ ***
Reality Is Not An Easy Thing To Be Confronted With, or to Accept!
|
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>I am badly in need of opinions. Although I have seen this issue discussed in
>several threads, I still am uncertain as to which direction to head.
>I recently replaced our AC. At the time of the quoting process, my house was
>calced at 31/2 ton (1800sf, ss, 100+ summers). Upon selecting the
>contractor, I asked for the 16 seer. I was told it only came in 4 ton, but
>since it was 2 stage, it would not be oversized for my house. I went with
>it. 2 weeks after install, I was on the manufactures web site and saw that
>the unit was not 2 stage. I presented this to the rep and he got back to me
>admitting he had made a mistake and that brand did not have a 4 ton 2 stage.
>Although, he claims they will make it right, he feels that the 4 ton single
>stage will be OK for our house/area (of course). So far we have not had
>enough hot weather to heavily test the unit. We have had a few warm days
>where we ran it for a few hours. I did notice it being slightly humid, as
>far as what constitutes a short run cycle, I am uncertain. It didn't seem to
>start/stop excessively.
>So, should I press for a change out now, wait for hotter weather before
>deciding, or is the difference between 3.5-4 ton so marginal that there is
>likely no problem? Thanks in advance for any advice.
>