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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one?

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bulges and "hot spots" inside 20 year old furnace...do I really need new one? jay-n-123@verizon.net 10-04-2007
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Posted by on October 4, 2007, 9:20 pm

> On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:38:58 +0000, jay-n-123@verizon.net wrote:
>
> > I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The
> > technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT
find
> > any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to as
"hot
> > spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had these
bulges
> > and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to developing
> > cracks, and showed me the bulges.
> >
> > But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a
> > camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he
> > showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a
> > tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to
"view
> > inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a camera".
This
> > same cavity could also be seen without a camera by looking into the
furnace
> > with flashlight (he had removed one of the panels above where the
burners
> > are) What he showed me was was a vertical cavity which had a couple of
> > bulges on the sides of the cavity which were bulging toward the outside.
> > Is that really the heat exchanger he showed me? What does the heat
> > exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier furnace look like and exactly where is
it
> > located?
> >
> > There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace.
> >
> > The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame.
> >
> > The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based
on
> > the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about
> > getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is
it
> > possible this furnace could last several more years? I believe they
> > recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't
> > recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they
could
> > have been present 3 years ago too.
> >
> > BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems,
> > although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand
that
> > I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty both
the
> > parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty on the
Carrier
> > would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman likely to last as
long
> > as a Carrier?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
>
> I used to do furnace checks and was told to sell new furnace installs at
> any cost short of being fraudulent. The heat exchanger in you furnace is
> welded steel and is not known to crack or develop leaks at the welded
> seams. However at 20 years in service I would consider an upgrade if it is
> your budget to afford it. If it is affordable you would benefit from an
> increased efficiency in a high SEER rated furnace.


Heat exchangers are not known to crack?????

I think you're smoking crack!!!!!!



Posted by dpb on October 4, 2007, 8:07 pm
jay-n-123@verizon.net wrote:
> I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The
> technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT
> find any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to
> as "hot spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had
> these bulges and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to
> developing cracks, and showed me the bulges.
>
> But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a
> camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he
> showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a
> tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to
> "view inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a
> camera". This same cavity could also be seen without a camera by
> looking into the furnace with flashlight (he had removed one of the
> panels above where the burners are) What he showed me was was a
> vertical cavity which had a couple of bulges on the sides of the cavity
> which were bulging toward the outside. Is that really the heat exchanger
> he showed me? What does the heat exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier
> furnace look like and exactly where is it located?
>
> There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace.
>
> The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame.
>
> The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based
> on the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about
> getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is
> it possible this furnace could last several more years? I believe they
> recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't
> recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they
> could have been present 3 years ago too.
>
> BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems,
> although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand
> that I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty
> both the parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty
> on the Carrier would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman
> likely to last as long as a Carrier?

It is possible. The key item is did he do a CO test? The risk in a
cracked condenser is flue gas in the warm air stream which is a serious
potentially fatal problem. While not as sensitive as a real instrument,
a CO monitor could spot a serious problem.

Goodman is one of the lower initial cost units but seems recently (last
couple of years from anecdotal evidence) to have upped their warranty
periods. What the actual failure rates are for their gas furnace units
I don't know but the last CR ratings for A/C units had them at the
complete bottom and separated from the rest of the pack by a significant
margin. I'd do a little investigative digging before jumping in,
particularly if there is an A/C unit involved as well as the furnace.

--

Posted by on October 4, 2007, 9:26 pm

> jay-n-123@verizon.net wrote:
> > I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The
> > technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT
> > find any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to
> > as "hot spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had
> > these bulges and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to
> > developing cracks, and showed me the bulges.
> >
> > But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a
> > camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he
> > showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a
> > tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to
> > "view inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a
> > camera". This same cavity could also be seen without a camera by
> > looking into the furnace with flashlight (he had removed one of the
> > panels above where the burners are) What he showed me was was a
> > vertical cavity which had a couple of bulges on the sides of the cavity
> > which were bulging toward the outside. Is that really the heat exchanger
> > he showed me? What does the heat exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier
> > furnace look like and exactly where is it located?
> >
> > There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace.
> >
> > The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame.
> >
> > The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based
> > on the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about
> > getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is
> > it possible this furnace could last several more years? I believe they
> > recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't
> > recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they
> > could have been present 3 years ago too.
> >
> > BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems,
> > although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand
> > that I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty
> > both the parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty
> > on the Carrier would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman
> > likely to last as long as a Carrier?
>
> It is possible. The key item is did he do a CO test? The risk in a
> cracked condenser is flue gas in the warm air stream which is a serious
> potentially fatal problem. While not as sensitive as a real instrument,
> a CO monitor could spot a serious problem.
>
> Goodman is one of the lower initial cost units but seems recently (last
> couple of years from anecdotal evidence) to have upped their warranty
> periods. What the actual failure rates are for their gas furnace units
> I don't know but the last CR ratings for A/C units had them at the
> complete bottom and separated from the rest of the pack by a significant
> margin. I'd do a little investigative digging before jumping in,
> particularly if there is an A/C unit involved as well as the furnace.


CR is a joke for rating HVAC equipment.



Posted by on October 4, 2007, 9:19 pm

> I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The
> technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT find
> any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to as "hot
> spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had these
bulges
> and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to developing
> cracks, and showed me the bulges.


Bulges, hum... a new sales tactic?


> But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a
> camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he
> showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a
> tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to "view
> inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a camera". This
> same cavity could also be seen without a camera by looking into the
furnace
> with flashlight (he had removed one of the panels above where the burners
> are) What he showed me was was a vertical cavity which had a couple of
> bulges on the sides of the cavity which were bulging toward the outside.
> Is that really the heat exchanger he showed me?


Yes


> What does the heat
> exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier furnace look like and exactly where is
it
> located?


The burner tubes are inside the heat exchanger.


> There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace.


On a 20 year old furnace?
No way, get out of here!


> The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame.


That's nice.


> The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based on
> the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about
> getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is
it
> possible this furnace could last several more years?


The question as to when to replace would be economics.
Where do you live?


> I believe they
> recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't
> recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they could
> have been present 3 years ago too.


And probably present at the time of manufacturing.
Try getting someone that's competent in HVAC.


> BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems,
> although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand
that
> I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty both
the
> parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty on the
Carrier
> would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman likely to last as
long
> as a Carrier?


Any brand will last *if* properly sized, installed and set-up to run with-in
the manufacture's specifications.



Posted by jay-n-123@verizon.net on October 5, 2007, 12:21 am
Ok, so it sounds like your telling me that they're trying to BS me about the
idea that bulges or curves in the metal are a sign that it is close to the
point of cracking. What he showed me doesn't strike me as appearing to be
present by design though.

Anyway, it sounds like I need to be getting a 2nd opinion as to whether the
bulges or curves in the metal really mean that the metal is about to crack.
Is there anyone you recommend in Northern NJ that knows what they are doing?

Thanks,

J


>
>> I had my 20 year old Carrier forced air furnace tuned up today. The
>> technician snaked a camera up the inside of the furnace. He did NOT find
>> any cracks, but he found "bulging spots" which he also referred to as
>> "hot
>> spots", inside the furnace. He claimed the heat exchanger had these
> bulges
>> and claimed that this is a sign that it is getting close to developing
>> cracks, and showed me the bulges.
>
>
> Bulges, hum... a new sales tactic?
>
>
>> But I wonder if what he showed me really was the heat exchanger....can a
>> camera can really be snaked up inside a heat exchanger?...or was what he
>> showed me something else. I always assumed that a heat exchanger is a
>> tremendously dense piece of metal and that you would not be able to "view
>> inside it with a camera" only "view it from below with a camera". This
>> same cavity could also be seen without a camera by looking into the
> furnace
>> with flashlight (he had removed one of the panels above where the burners
>> are) What he showed me was was a vertical cavity which had a couple of
>> bulges on the sides of the cavity which were bulging toward the outside.
>> Is that really the heat exchanger he showed me?
>
>
> Yes
>
>
>> What does the heat
>> exchanger on a 20 Yr. old Carrier furnace look like and exactly where is
> it
>> located?
>
>
> The burner tubes are inside the heat exchanger.
>
>
>> There is also some rust present on the inside of the furnace.
>
>
> On a 20 year old furnace?
> No way, get out of here!
>
>
>> The burners look like they produce a nice blue flame.
>
>
> That's nice.
>
>
>> The technician is recommending a new furnace based on the age and based
>> on
>> the bulges and rust. Do I really need to be seriously thinking about
>> getting a new furnace at this time because of the rust and bulges, or is
> it
>> possible this furnace could last several more years?
>
>
> The question as to when to replace would be economics.
> Where do you live?
>
>
>> I believe they
>> recommended a new furnace 3 years ago when I moved in although I don't
>> recall anyone showing me the bulges before, but I'm suspecting they could
>> have been present 3 years ago too.
>
>
> And probably present at the time of manufacturing.
> Try getting someone that's competent in HVAC.
>
>
>> BTW, the company I've been using prefers to install Goodman systems,
>> although they would also be willing to give me a price on another brand
> that
>> I have in mind which is Carrier. They say that they will warranty both
> the
>> parts and labor for 10 years on the Goodman, but the warranty on the
> Carrier
>> would depend on what their warranty is. Is a Goodman likely to last as
> long
>> as a Carrier?
>
>
> Any brand will last *if* properly sized, installed and set-up to run
> with-in
> the manufacture's specifications.
>
>


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