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Posted by Steve on December 5, 2008, 12:01 pm
>>I have the dreaded sporadic ignition lockout. I have seen what
>> happens. The first three burners on the right all light off. The
>> fourth one has only a 50/50 chance of lighting. Of course, that is
>> where the flame sensor is. Had a service man in today - and naturally
>> it did not do it for him.
>> I have pulled out the manifold and checked the orifice for #4 burner -
>> it looks fine, not blocked.
>> In fact, once it manages to light it burns just fine.
>> (This is a Carrier Weathermaker Infinity high-efficiency job - fuel is
>> LPG).
>> The manual says that bad flame carryover or propagation of flame
>> between the burners could be the problem.
>> No kidding.
>> But they don't say what to do about it.
>> Thanks any info.
> Your fav local tech will know exactly what it is and fix it for you.
Maybe I should have been a little more specific....
You fav local, *COMPETENT*, licensed, insured, professionally trained, HVAC
Tech,...*NOT* the lowest price.
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Posted by KJPRO on December 6, 2008, 5:28 am
>>>I have the dreaded sporadic ignition lockout. I have seen what
>>> happens. The first three burners on the right all light off. The
>>> fourth one has only a 50/50 chance of lighting. Of course, that is
>>> where the flame sensor is. Had a service man in today - and naturally
>>> it did not do it for him.
>>> I have pulled out the manifold and checked the orifice for #4 burner -
>>> it looks fine, not blocked.
>>> In fact, once it manages to light it burns just fine.
>>> (This is a Carrier Weathermaker Infinity high-efficiency job - fuel is
>>> LPG).
>>> The manual says that bad flame carryover or propagation of flame
>>> between the burners could be the problem.
>>> No kidding.
>>> But they don't say what to do about it.
>>> Thanks any info.
>> Your fav local tech will know exactly what it is and fix it for you.
> Maybe I should have been a little more specific....
> You fav local, *COMPETENT*, licensed, insured, professionally trained,
> HVAC Tech,...*NOT* the lowest price.
Or the local moron.
(but, he's been in business forever!)
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Posted by KJPRO on December 6, 2008, 5:23 am
>>I have the dreaded sporadic ignition lockout. I have seen what
>> happens. The first three burners on the right all light off. The
>> fourth one has only a 50/50 chance of lighting. Of course, that is
>> where the flame sensor is. Had a service man in today - and naturally
>> it did not do it for him.
>> I have pulled out the manifold and checked the orifice for #4 burner -
>> it looks fine, not blocked.
>> In fact, once it manages to light it burns just fine.
>> (This is a Carrier Weathermaker Infinity high-efficiency job - fuel is
>> LPG).
>> The manual says that bad flame carryover or propagation of flame
>> between the burners could be the problem.
>> No kidding.
>> But they don't say what to do about it.
>> Thanks any info.
> Your fav local tech will know exactly what it is and fix it for you.
Not here... the guy puts a new stat on the wall, resets the flame rollout
switch and leaves... next trip, he condemns the furnace. To stupid to
CORRECTLY diagnose the problem!
Said the HX had to be cracked and it would be to hard to remove for
inspection and there wasn't any other way to verify that it was bad.
So sad... but they sold em a new furnace!
To bad the heat exchanger was fine! <--- FACT
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Posted by Don Ocean on December 6, 2008, 3:58 pm
KJPRO wrote:
>>> I have the dreaded sporadic ignition lockout. I have seen what
>>> happens. The first three burners on the right all light off. The
>>> fourth one has only a 50/50 chance of lighting. Of course, that is
>>> where the flame sensor is. Had a service man in today - and naturally
>>> it did not do it for him.
>>> I have pulled out the manifold and checked the orifice for #4 burner -
>>> it looks fine, not blocked.
>>> In fact, once it manages to light it burns just fine.
>>> (This is a Carrier Weathermaker Infinity high-efficiency job - fuel is
>>> LPG).
>>> The manual says that bad flame carryover or propagation of flame
>>> between the burners could be the problem.
>>> No kidding.
>>> But they don't say what to do about it.
>>> Thanks any info.
>> Your fav local tech will know exactly what it is and fix it for you.
>
>
> Not here... the guy puts a new stat on the wall, resets the flame rollout
> switch and leaves... next trip, he condemns the furnace. To stupid to
> CORRECTLY diagnose the problem!
>
> Said the HX had to be cracked and it would be to hard to remove for
> inspection and there wasn't any other way to verify that it was bad.
>
> So sad... but they sold em a new furnace!
>
> To bad the heat exchanger was fine! <--- FACT
Not after it was whacked a few times taking it out!
There are folks out there that have made a helluva a lot of money
changing exchangers or furnaces that weren't bad. If your competitor
tells one of your customers that the furnace exchanger is cracked and
dangerous to life and limb, there is no way that homeowner will gamble
on it being good. Fear has sold more exchangers then fact. It is damned
hard to show a customer a bad waffle exchanger that has popped a sealing
ring deep inside. It is also a bit difficult to find any CO leakage
without jerry-rigging the furnace inducer fan to off. Induce is a
misnomer. It usually sucks.. ;-p Not every service vehicle can afford
an infrared camera and it is damned hard to shove a plastic eye tube
into a hot furnace when it is cold out. I am deeply amused at how many
good exchangers have been sent back to Goodman as being bad. They had a
short article in ACCA Today a while back on that. I would hope that is
not because of their complete furnace with tube exchanger change out
warranty. I would be crushed to believe that so many Service folks did
that measely $300 labor scam. I do believe that tube exchangers have
cut these numbers drastically. Most that I have worked on in the last 20
years or so were usually due to over firing and improper set up at
install. There were a lot of them that went, due to varying BTUH ratios
from propane. Much of that problem was usually part of the secondary
exchanger plugging up due to sooting..And one burner would create a
rolloff fault. Not a problem where furnaces are inspected and service on
a regular basis usually. I will do my very best to keep my customers
alive and healthy. One big scammy paycheck does not equate to many
honestly earned ones over a few decades from the children and
grandchildren of your original customers. Word of mouth can make you or
break you. I hunt, fish and go to church with my customers. They are family!
>
>
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Posted by KJPRO on December 7, 2008, 2:27 am
> KJPRO wrote:
>>>> I have the dreaded sporadic ignition lockout. I have seen what
>>>> happens. The first three burners on the right all light off. The
>>>> fourth one has only a 50/50 chance of lighting. Of course, that is
>>>> where the flame sensor is. Had a service man in today - and naturally
>>>> it did not do it for him.
>>>> I have pulled out the manifold and checked the orifice for #4 burner -
>>>> it looks fine, not blocked.
>>>> In fact, once it manages to light it burns just fine.
>>>> (This is a Carrier Weathermaker Infinity high-efficiency job - fuel is
>>>> LPG).
>>>> The manual says that bad flame carryover or propagation of flame
>>>> between the burners could be the problem.
>>>> No kidding.
>>>> But they don't say what to do about it.
>>>> Thanks any info.
>>> Your fav local tech will know exactly what it is and fix it for you.
>> Not here... the guy puts a new stat on the wall, resets the flame rollout
>> switch and leaves... next trip, he condemns the furnace. To stupid to
>> CORRECTLY diagnose the problem!
>> Said the HX had to be cracked and it would be to hard to remove for
>> inspection and there wasn't any other way to verify that it was bad.
>> So sad... but they sold em a new furnace!
>> To bad the heat exchanger was fine! <--- FACT
> Not after it was whacked a few times taking it out!
> There are folks out there that have made a helluva a lot of money
> changing exchangers or furnaces that weren't bad. If your competitor
> tells one of your customers that the furnace exchanger is cracked and
> dangerous to life and limb, there is no way that homeowner will gamble on
> it being good. Fear has sold more exchangers then fact. It is damned hard
> to show a customer a bad waffle exchanger that has popped a sealing ring
> deep inside. It is also a bit difficult to find any CO leakage without
> jerry-rigging the furnace inducer fan to off. Induce is a misnomer. It
> usually sucks.. ;-p Not every service vehicle can afford an infrared
> camera and it is damned hard to shove a plastic eye tube into a hot
> furnace when it is cold out.
They didn't even remove this one... said it had to be removed from the back!
It was up against the wall, so they said it couldn't be removed for
verification.
The clamshells are pretty easy to locate... show the client the rings you
find. :-)
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>> happens. The first three burners on the right all light off. The
>> fourth one has only a 50/50 chance of lighting. Of course, that is
>> where the flame sensor is. Had a service man in today - and naturally
>> it did not do it for him.
>> I have pulled out the manifold and checked the orifice for #4 burner -
>> it looks fine, not blocked.
>> In fact, once it manages to light it burns just fine.
>> (This is a Carrier Weathermaker Infinity high-efficiency job - fuel is
>> LPG).
>> The manual says that bad flame carryover or propagation of flame
>> between the burners could be the problem.
>> No kidding.
>> But they don't say what to do about it.
>> Thanks any info.