furnace question for HVAC guru's.... - Page 7

> >> A brand new furnace would cost less than that and a new basic single
> >> stage +90% furnace should be no more than $2500 installed.
> > You are nuts! A good 90% furnace installed will be at least 3K probably
> > more, unless your some shmuck that doesn't plan on having a business
> > verylong, or are using your bosses trucks and material, or really shitty
> > equipment with a really shitty install.
> Why 3k, the furnace costs about $1000, materials maybe $200 so you make
> $1300 for less than a days work. I just had one done for approx $2400 (not
> Goodman) including a 10 year warranty. Easy access (bsmt) and 2 x 20' 2"
> PVC. He said he normally charges $2900 but business was slow in the

>> >> A brand new furnace would cost less than that and a new basic single
>> >> stage +90% furnace should be no more than $2500 installed.
>> > You are nuts! A good 90% furnace installed will be at least 3K probably
>> > more, unless your some shmuck that doesn't plan on having a business
>> > verylong, or are using your bosses trucks and material, or really
>> > shitty
>> > equipment with a really shitty install.
>> Why 3k, the furnace costs about $1000, materials maybe $200 so you make
>> $1300 for less than a days work. I just had one done for approx $2400
>> (not
>> Goodman) including a 10 year warranty. Easy access (bsmt) and 2 x 20' 2"
>> PVC. He said he normally charges $2900 but business was slow in the
> summer.
> $200 for materials????????????????? LOL
> LP kit?
> Gas Piping
> Flu/Combustion Piping (priced PVC & fittings lately)
> Termination Kit (flu/combustion)
> Supply transition
> Return transition
> Sheet Metal Supplies
> Mastic Sealant (duct sealant)
> Media Filter Rack (with extra media)
> Condensate Pump?
> Drain Supplies
> New Digital Stat
> Electrical Wiring (priced copper wiring lately)
> Electrical Supplies
> Control Wiring and Supplies
> PVC Cleaner
> PVC Glue
> Pipe Sealant
> Hanger Materials
> Sheet Metal Screws
> Hanger Screws
> Vibration Mounts (Equipment Pad)
> Wire Ties
> Misc Supplies
> So, what did he not provide you for that $200?
> Then how much do you think a 1 Year Labor Warranty is worth?
> Don't forget that he not only has to provide the materials needed, but he
> has to provide the following:
> Service/Installation Vehicle
> Insurance for said vehicle
> Plates for said vehicle
> Vehicle Maintenance
> Liability Insurance
> Tools
> Tools and Equipment Insurance
> Tool Maintenance
> Technical Training
> New Product Training
> Code Books
> Business License
> Sales Tax License
> Certification Fees
> Uniforms
> Uniform Service
> Garbage Disposal
> Ut-Oh
> Don't forget............
> Federal Taxes
> State Taxes
> County Taxes
> Social Security (not just the half you pay, he's self employed so he pays
> the whole amount)
> Property Taxes
> Sales Tax
> Vacations
> Store Front (mortgage/rent)
> Property/Renters Insurance
> Building Repairs
> Shop Furniture
> Shop Tools
> Dealer Meetings
> Advertising
> Inventory
> Inventory Taxes
> Business Equipment
> Business Forms
> Brochures
> Computers
> Software
> Postage
> Legal Fees
> CPA Fees
> Trade Subscriptions
> Office Staff
> Unemployment Insurance
> Workman's Comp
> Health Plans
> Telephone Bill
> Electrical Bill
> Gas Bill
> Water Bill
> Sewer Bill
> Security Bill
> Mobile Telephone Bill
> Pager Bill
> Health Insurance
> 401K
> Holiday Pay
> Sick Pay
> Life Insurance
> Dental/Vision Insurance
> Are you still set on your $200 for the extras????????
> If this doesn't open your eyes, nothing will!!!!

> >> >> A brand new furnace would cost less than that and a new basic single
> >> >> stage +90% furnace should be no more than $2500 installed.
> >> > You are nuts! A good 90% furnace installed will be at least 3K

> >> > more, unless your some shmuck that doesn't plan on having a business
> >> > verylong, or are using your bosses trucks and material, or really
> >> > shitty
> >> > equipment with a really shitty install.
> >> Why 3k, the furnace costs about $1000, materials maybe $200 so you make
> >> $1300 for less than a days work. I just had one done for approx $2400
> >> (not
> >> Goodman) including a 10 year warranty. Easy access (bsmt) and 2 x 20'

> >> PVC. He said he normally charges $2900 but business was slow in the
> > summer.
> > $200 for materials????????????????? LOL
> > LP kit?
> > Gas Piping
> > Flu/Combustion Piping (priced PVC & fittings lately)
> > Termination Kit (flu/combustion)
> > Supply transition
> > Return transition
> > Sheet Metal Supplies
> > Mastic Sealant (duct sealant)
> > Media Filter Rack (with extra media)
> > Condensate Pump?
> > Drain Supplies
> > New Digital Stat
> > Electrical Wiring (priced copper wiring lately)
> > Electrical Supplies
> > Control Wiring and Supplies
> > PVC Cleaner
> > PVC Glue
> > Pipe Sealant
> > Hanger Materials
> > Sheet Metal Screws
> > Hanger Screws
> > Vibration Mounts (Equipment Pad)
> > Wire Ties
> > Misc Supplies
> > So, what did he not provide you for that $200?
> > Then how much do you think a 1 Year Labor Warranty is worth?
> > Don't forget that he not only has to provide the materials needed, but
> > has to provide the following:
> > Service/Installation Vehicle
> > Insurance for said vehicle
> > Plates for said vehicle
> > Vehicle Maintenance
> > Liability Insurance
> > Tools
> > Tools and Equipment Insurance
> > Tool Maintenance
> > Technical Training
> > New Product Training
> > Code Books
> > Business License
> > Sales Tax License
> > Certification Fees
> > Uniforms
> > Uniform Service
> > Garbage Disposal
> > Ut-Oh
> > Don't forget............
> > Federal Taxes
> > State Taxes
> > County Taxes
> > Social Security (not just the half you pay, he's self employed so he

> > the whole amount)
> > Property Taxes
> > Sales Tax
> > Vacations
> > Store Front (mortgage/rent)
> > Property/Renters Insurance
> > Building Repairs
> > Shop Furniture
> > Shop Tools
> > Dealer Meetings
> > Advertising
> > Inventory
> > Inventory Taxes
> > Business Equipment
> > Business Forms
> > Brochures
> > Computers
> > Software
> > Postage
> > Legal Fees
> > CPA Fees
> > Trade Subscriptions
> > Office Staff
> > Unemployment Insurance
> > Workman's Comp
> > Health Plans
> > Telephone Bill
> > Electrical Bill
> > Gas Bill
> > Water Bill
> > Sewer Bill
> > Security Bill
> > Mobile Telephone Bill
> > Pager Bill
> > Health Insurance
> > 401K
> > Holiday Pay
> > Sick Pay
> > Life Insurance
> > Dental/Vision Insurance
> > Are you still set on your $200 for the extras????????
> > If this doesn't open your eyes, nothing will!!!!
> I understand and appreciate your overhead costs however:
> There is a business term " Economies of scale" which does not seem to

> to your trade.
> "When more units of a good or a service can be produced on a larger scale,
> yet with (on average) less input costs, economies of scale (ES) are said
> be achieved. Alternatively, this means that as a company grows and
> production units increase, a company will have a better chance to decrease
> its costs. According to theory, economic growth may be achieved when
> economies of scale are realized."
> BTW, my local mechanic charges approx $60/hr and has all those expenses

> more (ie: $5000/mo lease) Why is it that he can make a living at $60 yet

> guys need approx $300/hr???

>> >> >> A brand new furnace would cost less than that and a new basic
>> >> >> single
>> >> >> stage +90% furnace should be no more than $2500 installed.
>> >> > You are nuts! A good 90% furnace installed will be at least 3K
> probably
>> >> > more, unless your some shmuck that doesn't plan on having a business
>> >> > verylong, or are using your bosses trucks and material, or really
>> >> > shitty
>> >> > equipment with a really shitty install.
>> >> Why 3k, the furnace costs about $1000, materials maybe $200 so you
>> >> make
>> >> $1300 for less than a days work. I just had one done for approx $2400
>> >> (not
>> >> Goodman) including a 10 year warranty. Easy access (bsmt) and 2 x 20'
> 2"
>> >> PVC. He said he normally charges $2900 but business was slow in the
>> > summer.
>> > $200 for materials????????????????? LOL
>> > LP kit?
>> > Gas Piping
>> > Flu/Combustion Piping (priced PVC & fittings lately)
>> > Termination Kit (flu/combustion)
>> > Supply transition
>> > Return transition
>> > Sheet Metal Supplies
>> > Mastic Sealant (duct sealant)
>> > Media Filter Rack (with extra media)
>> > Condensate Pump?
>> > Drain Supplies
>> > New Digital Stat
>> > Electrical Wiring (priced copper wiring lately)
>> > Electrical Supplies
>> > Control Wiring and Supplies
>> > PVC Cleaner
>> > PVC Glue
>> > Pipe Sealant
>> > Hanger Materials
>> > Sheet Metal Screws
>> > Hanger Screws
>> > Vibration Mounts (Equipment Pad)
>> > Wire Ties
>> > Misc Supplies
>> > So, what did he not provide you for that $200?
>> > Then how much do you think a 1 Year Labor Warranty is worth?
>> > Don't forget that he not only has to provide the materials needed, but
> he
>> > has to provide the following:
>> > Service/Installation Vehicle
>> > Insurance for said vehicle
>> > Plates for said vehicle
>> > Vehicle Maintenance
>> > Liability Insurance
>> > Tools
>> > Tools and Equipment Insurance
>> > Tool Maintenance
>> > Technical Training
>> > New Product Training
>> > Code Books
>> > Business License
>> > Sales Tax License
>> > Certification Fees
>> > Uniforms
>> > Uniform Service
>> > Garbage Disposal
>> > Ut-Oh
>> > Don't forget............
>> > Federal Taxes
>> > State Taxes
>> > County Taxes
>> > Social Security (not just the half you pay, he's self employed so he
> pays
>> > the whole amount)
>> > Property Taxes
>> > Sales Tax
>> > Vacations
>> > Store Front (mortgage/rent)
>> > Property/Renters Insurance
>> > Building Repairs
>> > Shop Furniture
>> > Shop Tools
>> > Dealer Meetings
>> > Advertising
>> > Inventory
>> > Inventory Taxes
>> > Business Equipment
>> > Business Forms
>> > Brochures
>> > Computers
>> > Software
>> > Postage
>> > Legal Fees
>> > CPA Fees
>> > Trade Subscriptions
>> > Office Staff
>> > Unemployment Insurance
>> > Workman's Comp
>> > Health Plans
>> > Telephone Bill
>> > Electrical Bill
>> > Gas Bill
>> > Water Bill
>> > Sewer Bill
>> > Security Bill
>> > Mobile Telephone Bill
>> > Pager Bill
>> > Health Insurance
>> > 401K
>> > Holiday Pay
>> > Sick Pay
>> > Life Insurance
>> > Dental/Vision Insurance
>> > Are you still set on your $200 for the extras????????
>> > If this doesn't open your eyes, nothing will!!!!
>> I understand and appreciate your overhead costs however:
>> There is a business term " Economies of scale" which does not seem to
> apply
>> to your trade.
>> "When more units of a good or a service can be produced on a larger
>> scale,
>> yet with (on average) less input costs, economies of scale (ES) are said
> to
>> be achieved. Alternatively, this means that as a company grows and
>> production units increase, a company will have a better chance to
>> decrease
>> its costs. According to theory, economic growth may be achieved when
>> economies of scale are realized."
>> BTW, my local mechanic charges approx $60/hr and has all those expenses
> and
>> more (ie: $5000/mo lease) Why is it that he can make a living at $60 yet
> you
>> guys need approx $300/hr???
> Who said anything about $300/hr???

> Does your mechanic load that shop up in the back of his vehicle and work
> "on
> site" at your residence?

> Open up your mind and think, their is a lot of cost that you want to
> dismiss
> as legit costs of doing business.
> If one charges less, their lifestyle and benefits are a direct reflection
> of
> that lower service rate. I on one hand like to be on top of my game. That
> cost money to support the latest equipment, training and resources to
> provide the best service for my clients that I possibly can provide.
> That doesn't come cheap!

> >> >> >> A brand new furnace would cost less than that and a new basic
> >> >> >> single
> >> >> >> stage +90% furnace should be no more than $2500 installed.
> >> >> > You are nuts! A good 90% furnace installed will be at least 3K
> > probably
> >> >> > more, unless your some shmuck that doesn't plan on having a

> >> >> > verylong, or are using your bosses trucks and material, or really
> >> >> > shitty
> >> >> > equipment with a really shitty install.
> >> >> Why 3k, the furnace costs about $1000, materials maybe $200 so you
> >> >> make
> >> >> $1300 for less than a days work. I just had one done for approx

> >> >> (not
> >> >> Goodman) including a 10 year warranty. Easy access (bsmt) and 2 x

> > 2"
> >> >> PVC. He said he normally charges $2900 but business was slow in the
> >> > summer.
> >> > $200 for materials????????????????? LOL
> >> > LP kit?
> >> > Gas Piping
> >> > Flu/Combustion Piping (priced PVC & fittings lately)
> >> > Termination Kit (flu/combustion)
> >> > Supply transition
> >> > Return transition
> >> > Sheet Metal Supplies
> >> > Mastic Sealant (duct sealant)
> >> > Media Filter Rack (with extra media)
> >> > Condensate Pump?
> >> > Drain Supplies
> >> > New Digital Stat
> >> > Electrical Wiring (priced copper wiring lately)
> >> > Electrical Supplies
> >> > Control Wiring and Supplies
> >> > PVC Cleaner
> >> > PVC Glue
> >> > Pipe Sealant
> >> > Hanger Materials
> >> > Sheet Metal Screws
> >> > Hanger Screws
> >> > Vibration Mounts (Equipment Pad)
> >> > Wire Ties
> >> > Misc Supplies
> >> > So, what did he not provide you for that $200?
> >> > Then how much do you think a 1 Year Labor Warranty is worth?
> >> > Don't forget that he not only has to provide the materials needed,

> > he
> >> > has to provide the following:
> >> > Service/Installation Vehicle
> >> > Insurance for said vehicle
> >> > Plates for said vehicle
> >> > Vehicle Maintenance
> >> > Liability Insurance
> >> > Tools
> >> > Tools and Equipment Insurance
> >> > Tool Maintenance
> >> > Technical Training
> >> > New Product Training
> >> > Code Books
> >> > Business License
> >> > Sales Tax License
> >> > Certification Fees
> >> > Uniforms
> >> > Uniform Service
> >> > Garbage Disposal
> >> > Ut-Oh
> >> > Don't forget............
> >> > Federal Taxes
> >> > State Taxes
> >> > County Taxes
> >> > Social Security (not just the half you pay, he's self employed so he
> > pays
> >> > the whole amount)
> >> > Property Taxes
> >> > Sales Tax
> >> > Vacations
> >> > Store Front (mortgage/rent)
> >> > Property/Renters Insurance
> >> > Building Repairs
> >> > Shop Furniture
> >> > Shop Tools
> >> > Dealer Meetings
> >> > Advertising
> >> > Inventory
> >> > Inventory Taxes
> >> > Business Equipment
> >> > Business Forms
> >> > Brochures
> >> > Computers
> >> > Software
> >> > Postage
> >> > Legal Fees
> >> > CPA Fees
> >> > Trade Subscriptions
> >> > Office Staff
> >> > Unemployment Insurance
> >> > Workman's Comp
> >> > Health Plans
> >> > Telephone Bill
> >> > Electrical Bill
> >> > Gas Bill
> >> > Water Bill
> >> > Sewer Bill
> >> > Security Bill
> >> > Mobile Telephone Bill
> >> > Pager Bill
> >> > Health Insurance
> >> > 401K
> >> > Holiday Pay
> >> > Sick Pay
> >> > Life Insurance
> >> > Dental/Vision Insurance
> >> > Are you still set on your $200 for the extras????????
> >> > If this doesn't open your eyes, nothing will!!!!
> >> I understand and appreciate your overhead costs however:
> >> There is a business term " Economies of scale" which does not seem to
> > apply
> >> to your trade.
> >> "When more units of a good or a service can be produced on a larger
> >> scale,
> >> yet with (on average) less input costs, economies of scale (ES) are

> > to
> >> be achieved. Alternatively, this means that as a company grows and
> >> production units increase, a company will have a better chance to
> >> decrease
> >> its costs. According to theory, economic growth may be achieved when
> >> economies of scale are realized."
> >> BTW, my local mechanic charges approx $60/hr and has all those expenses
> > and
> >> more (ie: $5000/mo lease) Why is it that he can make a living at $60

> > you
> >> guys need approx $300/hr???
> > Who said anything about $300/hr???
> Seems the average is 4k to install a +90% VS = $4000 - $1600 equipment

> = $2400 labor / 8 hrs = $300/hr

> > Does your mechanic load that shop up in the back of his vehicle and work
> > "on
> > site" at your residence?
> No, but he pays a lot to lease a shop.

> > Open up your mind and think, their is a lot of cost that you want to
> > dismiss
> > as legit costs of doing business.
> > If one charges less, their lifestyle and benefits are a direct

> > of
> > that lower service rate. I on one hand like to be on top of my game.

> > cost money to support the latest equipment, training and resources to
> > provide the best service for my clients that I possibly can provide.
> > That doesn't come cheap!
> I can see your point but not for a one-man shop specializing in installing
> and servicing furnaces.