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Posted by Geoman on August 7, 2007, 11:15 am
>
>>
>>>
>>>> I'm looking for source for a water to water heat pump suitable for use
>>>> in
>>>> an open loop geothermal system. The job has been spec'd out for a 3T
>>>> unit
>>>> with desuperheater.
>>>
>>> A while back I did some research on desuperheaters and high efficiency
>>> heat pumps.... the consensus from the manufacturers is that while it
>>> sounds good, and did work well on the older systems, there is not enough
>>> heat generated in the new systems for the desuperheater to operate
>>> efficiently. According to the engineers at the manufacturer, the best
>>> you can hope for is 120 degree water out of the desuperheater.....but
>>> its your money and your can spend it any way you want.
>>
>> Hi Steve, If were talking heat pumps in winter operation up north then I
>> might agree, but I disagree concerning the other 4500 hours where temps
>> are above 45 in our area, and I disagree if were talking about geothermal
>> or dedicated hot water and with geo it depends if the loop was shorted. I
>> believe we must separate heat pumps from Geos on this discussion, this
>> poster did mentioned geothermal. As I stated, I would agree concerning
>> heat pumps but only when its colder outside, maybe below 45 without doing
>> the math. When the temps are above 45 they too will produce a tremendous
>> amount of heat for hot water, so in my opinion the rep should have
>> clarified his statement better. Did you happen to look up in ARI and
>> factory charts the facts concerning this reps statements? Probably not
>> because most of us have a mindset not to question the 'gods' that the
>> manufacturers put into the field, which btw have been wrong in our
>> companies experiences many many times. With Geothermal an 80 gallon tank
>> with water coming in at 45 degrees heated to 120 amounts to substantial
>> savings, almost 51,000 btu's. Not many homes need water above 120. I
>> completely understand the formula should also consider the amount of run
>> time/ KW required to make this hot water, but for a rep to bluntly say
>> what they did I think is inaccurate, all things considered. Now, if
>> someone wish's to dig deeper into ARI and loop design and other things to
>> keep this discussion going, I'm glued to the subject for personal
>> reasons, I was going to convert my heat pumps to using desuperheaters in
>> my home. If I'm in error I need to know before I cut the lines <g>
>>
>> Rich
>
> Rich,
> The only reason I had even done my homework on desuperheaters was because
> a customer had a 25 year old GEO with desuperheater, that I replaced with
> a 16SEER 2 stage heat pump. He wanted to know about putting a
> desuperheater on the new system. I didn't have a problem with doing it,
> all I could do was to give him all of the facts as I knew them and let him
> make that decision. I had a hard time finding the company that actually
> manufactures them, I talked to their engineers, and got their paperwork,
> along with with the engineers from Rheem. I talked to the folks from Rheem
> *after* I had done my homework with the desuperheater folks. The biggest
> question I had for the folks at Rheem was for warranty purposes.
>
Thanks Steve, I REALLY would like to keep this thread going, as I stated,
one reason being personal.
I remember too that Trane had a desuperheater system years ago. I assumed
they had so many problems with hacks doing the installs and the warranty
repairs were eating their profit.
Now, the newer SEER systems do have lower discharge pressures which mean
lower discharge temps, but I don't see why they would say they can't pay
off, especially in the AC area where you live, heck, how many hours a year
do you use AC down there, 2000 or more? This higher SEER is why I was
mentioning at least 45 degrees or higher, but, I havent seen one installed
in about 10 years, so I guess its time to play around with my own equipment
and see for myself.
Rich
>
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