geothermal water to water heat pump - Page 2

>>>>> I'm looking for source for a water to water heat pump suitable for use
>>>>> in
>>>>> an open loop geothermal system. The job has been spec'd out for a 3T
>>>>> unit
>>>>> with desuperheater.
>>>> A while back I did some research on desuperheaters and high efficiency
>>>> heat pumps.... the consensus from the manufacturers is that while it
>>>> sounds good, and did work well on the older systems, there is not
>>>> enough heat generated in the new systems for the desuperheater to
>>>> operate efficiently. According to the engineers at the manufacturer,
>>>> the best you can hope for is 120 degree water out of the
>>>> desuperheater.....but its your money and your can spend it any way you
>>>> want.
>>> Hi Steve, If were talking heat pumps in winter operation up north then I
>>> might agree, but I disagree concerning the other 4500 hours where temps
>>> are above 45 in our area, and I disagree if were talking about
>>> geothermal or dedicated hot water and with geo it depends if the loop
>>> was shorted. I believe we must separate heat pumps from Geos on this
>>> discussion, this poster did mentioned geothermal. As I stated, I would
>>> agree concerning heat pumps but only when its colder outside, maybe
>>> below 45 without doing the math. When the temps are above 45 they too
>>> will produce a tremendous amount of heat for hot water, so in my opinion
>>> the rep should have clarified his statement better. Did you happen to
>>> look up in ARI and factory charts the facts concerning this reps
>>> statements? Probably not because most of us have a mindset not to
>>> question the 'gods' that the manufacturers put into the field, which btw
>>> have been wrong in our companies experiences many many times. With
>>> Geothermal an 80 gallon tank with water coming in at 45 degrees heated
>>> to 120 amounts to substantial savings, almost 51,000 btu's. Not many
>>> homes need water above 120. I completely understand the formula should
>>> also consider the amount of run time/ KW required to make this hot
>>> water, but for a rep to bluntly say what they did I think is inaccurate,
>>> all things considered. Now, if someone wish's to dig deeper into ARI and
>>> loop design and other things to keep this discussion going, I'm glued to
>>> the subject for personal reasons, I was going to convert my heat pumps
>>> to using desuperheaters in my home. If I'm in error I need to know
>>> Rich
>> Rich,
>> The only reason I had even done my homework on desuperheaters was because
>> a customer had a 25 year old GEO with desuperheater, that I replaced with
>> a 16SEER 2 stage heat pump. He wanted to know about putting a
>> desuperheater on the new system. I didn't have a problem with doing it,
>> all I could do was to give him all of the facts as I knew them and let
>> him make that decision. I had a hard time finding the company that
>> actually manufactures them, I talked to their engineers, and got their
>> paperwork, along with with the engineers from Rheem. I talked to the
>> folks from Rheem *after* I had done my homework with the desuperheater
>> folks. The biggest question I had for the folks at Rheem was for warranty
>> purposes.
> Thanks Steve, I REALLY would like to keep this thread going, as I stated,
> one reason being personal.
> I remember too that Trane had a desuperheater system years ago. I assumed
> they had so many problems with hacks doing the installs and the warranty
> repairs were eating their profit.
> Now, the newer SEER systems do have lower discharge pressures which mean
> lower discharge temps, but I don't see why they would say they can't pay
> off, especially in the AC area where you live, heck, how many hours a year
> do you use AC down there, 2000 or more? This higher SEER is why I was
> mentioning at least 45 degrees or higher, but, I havent seen one installed
> in about 10 years, so I guess its time to play around with my own
> equipment and see for myself.

> I'm looking for source for a water to water heat pump suitable for use in
> an open loop geothermal system. The job has been spec'd out for a 3T unit
> with desuperheater.

> Where are you located & how soon do you want one?
>
> geothermaljones
>
>> I'm looking for source for a water to water heat pump suitable for use in
>> an open loop geothermal system. The job has been spec'd out for a 3T unit
>> with desuperheater.

> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 22:38:36 -0500, geothermaljones wrote:
> > Where are you located & how soon do you want one?
> > geothermaljones
> >> I'm looking for source for a water to water heat pump suitable for use
> >> an open loop geothermal system. The job has been spec'd out for a 3T

> >> with desuperheater.
> Central Wisconsin about 40 miles due west of Oshkosh. Ideally before the
> snow flies. Am in process of renovating a small cabin (20x24) with loft
> and wood foundation and full basement. New well with Grundfos constant
> pressure, variable speed pump and 1" line coming into building. Small
> "turtle pond" for effluent.
> My idea is to have an open loop system using well water going through heat
> exchanger and then discharging into pond. The specs I've received from
> contractor include 2 50-gallon electric water heaters to act as reservoirs
> for both heating and domestic hot water. Specs were initially for 2T unit
> but, according to contractor, a 3T unit cost the same and that's now in
> the specs.