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how contractors really size aircon nicksanspam 10-05-2007
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Posted by CJT on October 20, 2007, 9:35 pm
kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:

>
>>kjpro @ usenet.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Noon-Air wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 5 Oct 2007 13:00:28 -0400, nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I like the "front door rule" :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications/html/FSEC-PF-289-95/index.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Nick
>>>>>>
>>>>>>One of the most telling bits of info is the "reasons for oversizing".
>>>>>>The most common reason is because the customer requested it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>This is done strictly out of ignorance.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>That
>>>>>>suggests to me that in the real world the Manual J and other "correct"
>>>>>>ways of sizing are too often giving undersized results and the
>>>>>>customers have learned from past experience that they need a bigger
>>>>>>unit then the "experts" tell them they need.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>This is only because the customer is trying to get the system to do
>>>
>>>things
>>>
>>>
>>>>>that its not designed for
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That's the customer's choice to make. Who are you to say what he should
>>>>be able to call upon it to do? He's the one paying.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Almost every place I've
>>>>>>lived in has had undersized cooling.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Probably not.....a correctly sized system is designed to *MAINTAIN* the
>>>>>average comfort levels at the design conditions....not bring the temp
>
> in
>
>>>a
>>>
>>>
>>>>>100 degree home down to 70 degrees in 30 minutes. Its not gonna happen.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>If that's what the customer wants, and he's willing to pay for it, and
>>>>it's not illegal, then who made YOU king?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>CJT if you had a clue, you would know it's not expected from a system
>
> that's
>
>>>correctly sized.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Expected by you, you mean, using a particular definition of "correct."
>
>
>
> Boy, you could be an English teacher, but you just can't understand plain
> English.
> Pretty simple, Shut The Fuck Up ASSHOLE.
>
>
No. Take your own advice.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.

Posted by Noon-Air on October 20, 2007, 10:43 pm


>> Expected by you, you mean, using a particular definition of "correct."

CJT... "correct" is defined by the proper science and calculations according
to the requirements by the IBC, IMC, NEC, ASHRAE, and State/local laws,
codes and regulations.You seem to think these don't apply to you. Maybe you
need to do some homework before trying to stir the pot here.

For the most part, *most* of the regulars in alt.hvac are certified master
techs, and contractors. Alt.hvac is *NOT* a place for home owners to come
while about paying $100 cause they were too ignorant to change their
filters. Thats what alt.home.repair is for.

We are not going to assume the liability of telling you how to fix your
jurassic furnace, sight unseen, and without knowing what your abilities and
capabilities are.
You need to call a local, *COMPETENT*, licensed, insured, professionally
trained, HVAC technician to come diagnose and repair or replace your broken
air conditioner, heat pump, furnace, and/or boiler.

If you would be so kind, please quit cross posting this junk.



Posted by on October 20, 2007, 11:07 pm
wrote:

>
>
>>> Expected by you, you mean, using a particular definition of "correct."
>
>CJT... "correct" is defined by the proper science and calculations according
>to the requirements by the IBC, IMC, NEC, ASHRAE, and State/local laws,
>codes and regulations.You seem to think these don't apply to you. Maybe you
>need to do some homework before trying to stir the pot here.
>
>For the most part, *most* of the regulars in alt.hvac are certified master
>techs, and contractors. Alt.hvac is *NOT* a place for home owners to come
>while about paying $100 cause they were too ignorant to change their
>filters. Thats what alt.home.repair is for.

        And, 99.999 % of the time, said home-moaners never were, and
never will, even live close enough to the regs here to be a customer,
or potential customer. They don't understand that, they seem to think
that somehow they are 'a representative customer talking to a
contractor about doing some business'. Of course, they are no such
thing - they are someone looking for a freebie, or BITCHING about a
contractor, and expecting to be treated like they paid money for
something here.

        Advice to moaners - if you don't know EXACTLY where the person
you're talking to is in business, and if you don't live within maybe
20 miles of that place, you are NOT 'a prospective customer', you are
'a free loader from out of town, just passing through with his hand
out' and when you babble on about 'I'll never give you my business',
it's laughable, it's like saying you'll never nominate me for Pope - A
) you weren't going to anyway, B ) no one cares what you do, and C )
I'm not even Catholic.

>
>We are not going to assume the liability of telling you how to fix your
>jurassic furnace, sight unseen, and without knowing what your abilities and
>capabilities are.
>You need to call a local, *COMPETENT*, licensed, insured, professionally
>trained, HVAC technician to come diagnose and repair or replace your broken
>air conditioner, heat pump, furnace, and/or boiler.
>
>If you would be so kind, please quit cross posting this junk.
>

--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

Posted by Joseph on October 21, 2007, 1:21 am
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>>> Expected by you, you mean, using a particular definition of "correct."
>>
>>CJT... "correct" is defined by the proper science and calculations according
>>to the requirements by the IBC, IMC, NEC, ASHRAE, and State/local laws,
>>codes and regulations.You seem to think these don't apply to you. Maybe you
>>need to do some homework before trying to stir the pot here.
>>
>>For the most part, *most* of the regulars in alt.hvac are certified master
>>techs, and contractors. Alt.hvac is *NOT* a place for home owners to come
>>while about paying $100 cause they were too ignorant to change their
>>filters. Thats what alt.home.repair is for.
>
> And, 99.999 % of the time, said home-moaners never were, and
> never will, even live close enough to the regs here to be a customer,
> or potential customer. They don't understand that, they seem to think
> that somehow they are 'a representative customer talking to a
> contractor about doing some business'. Of course, they are no such
> thing - they are someone looking for a freebie, or BITCHING about a
> contractor, and expecting to be treated like they paid money for
> something here.
>
> Advice to moaners - if you don't know EXACTLY where the person
> you're talking to is in business, and if you don't live within maybe
> 20 miles of that place, you are NOT 'a prospective customer', you are
> 'a free loader from out of town, just passing through with his hand
> out' and when you babble on about 'I'll never give you my business',
> it's laughable, it's like saying you'll never nominate me for Pope - A
> ) you weren't going to anyway, B ) no one cares what you do, and C )
> I'm not even Catholic.

Amen Brother...

>
>>
>>We are not going to assume the liability of telling you how to fix your
>>jurassic furnace, sight unseen, and without knowing what your abilities and
>>capabilities are.
>>You need to call a local, *COMPETENT*, licensed, insured, professionally
>>trained, HVAC technician to come diagnose and repair or replace your broken
>>air conditioner, heat pump, furnace, and/or boiler.
>>
>>If you would be so kind, please quit cross posting this junk.
>>
>
> --
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
> http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/



Posted by CJT on October 21, 2007, 1:16 am
Noon-Air wrote:

>>>Expected by you, you mean, using a particular definition of "correct."
>
>
> CJT... "correct" is defined by the proper science and calculations according
> to the requirements by the IBC, IMC, NEC, ASHRAE, and State/local laws,
> codes and regulations.You seem to think these don't apply to you. Maybe you
> need to do some homework before trying to stir the pot here.

As pointed out in the article that started this thread, many
"professionals" don't use those calculations. Are you suggesting
they should all be thrown in jail?

>
> For the most part, *most* of the regulars in alt.hvac are certified master
> techs, and contractors. Alt.hvac is *NOT* a place for home owners to come
> while about paying $100 cause they were too ignorant to change their
> filters. Thats what alt.home.repair is for.
>
> We are not going to assume the liability of telling you how to fix your
> jurassic furnace, sight unseen, and without knowing what your abilities and
> capabilities are.
> You need to call a local, *COMPETENT*, licensed, insured, professionally
> trained, HVAC technician to come diagnose and repair or replace your broken
> air conditioner, heat pump, furnace, and/or boiler.
>
> If you would be so kind, please quit cross posting this junk.
>
>


--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.

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