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power consumption, SEER, etc. Bill 04-10-2007
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Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski on April 13, 2007, 11:08 pm

> wrote:
>
> >
> >>>
> >>>I disagree.
> >>>
> >>>The "observable" universe is approx. 12-14 billion light years radius.
> >>>
> >>>That's not quite infinite.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Then, when it ends at that 14 billion light years of
> >> radius....................What is on the other side of it?
> >
> >Well.......Nothing is "on the other side". Space itself is expanding
> >and that makes the question "what's on the other side" irrelevant.
> >
> >This probably isn't the group for this discussion.
> >
> >Jump over to sci.astronomy. They know a lot more about this
> >shit than I do.
> >
> >
> But if nothing is "on the other side" then how is it that there is
> something (us) on this side? If its a "wall" out there at the end, the
> has to be something on the other side. Certainly we cant be the only
> "beings" out in this corner of space. It either ends or it doesnt. :-)
> Bubba

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space

--





Posted by Bubba on April 14, 2007, 10:50 am
On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:08:22 -0800, "Jeffrey Lebowski"

>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>I disagree.
>> >>>
>> >>>The "observable" universe is approx. 12-14 billion light years radius.
>> >>>
>> >>>That's not quite infinite.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> Then, when it ends at that 14 billion light years of
>> >> radius....................What is on the other side of it?
>> >
>> >Well.......Nothing is "on the other side". Space itself is expanding
>> >and that makes the question "what's on the other side" irrelevant.
>> >
>> >This probably isn't the group for this discussion.
>> >
>> >Jump over to sci.astronomy. They know a lot more about this
>> >shit than I do.
>> >
>> >
>> But if nothing is "on the other side" then how is it that there is
>> something (us) on this side? If its a "wall" out there at the end, the
>> has to be something on the other side. Certainly we cant be the only
>> "beings" out in this corner of space. It either ends or it doesnt. :-)
>> Bubba
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space

Wow! Was that a lot of mumbo jumbo. I dont care. Im going to hop on my
light speed tele-porter and go find the end of the universe. Then, Im
going to cut a holw through it and see whats on the other side.
Bubba :-)

Posted by B-Hate-Me on April 15, 2007, 11:24 am

>>
> But if nothing is "on the other side" then how is it that there is
> something (us) on this side? If its a "wall" out there at the end, the
> has to be something on the other side. Certainly we cant be the only
> "beings" out in this corner of space. It either ends or it doesnt. :-)

It doesn't.



It's still finite tho..............



Posted by Don Keener on April 10, 2007, 7:57 pm
SEER isnt an absolute or constant ratio... its a 'point on the curve'.
Lots of things effect SEER... indoor and outdoor temp, duct restriction,
dirt in the coils, charge, etc etc etc... Most likely... the SEER
rating, like EPA Highway Mileage, is measured at ideal conditions which the
unit may not see all that often.

http://www.advancedenergy.org/buildings/knowledge_library/heating_and_cooling/seer_facts_bulletin.pdf

> On Apr 10, 3:50 pm, gof...@gonefishin.net wrote:
>> >I'm hoping I can get an explanation about SEER that makes sense.
>> >Here's
>> >my situation. I am going to have a Trane XL19i compressor added to
>> >my
>> >existing Trane XV90 heating system (the brand and particulars don't
>> >really
>> >matter...). I am going to have the HVAC work done by a pro, but I
>> >want
>> >to run the electric myself. I am trying to understand the electric
>> >load in
>> >some detail and it just doesn't add up.
>>
>> >I am considering a 36kBTU (3 ton) compressor. The spec sheet says
>> >that it needs a 30A 220V dedicated circuit (which is fine...), but I
>> >am
>> >trying to figure out what the *true* load on the subpanel will be.
>> >The spec
>> >sheet says that the max compressor draw is 15.1A and that the max fan
>> >draw is 2.8A. So, I figure that when the unit is running wide open
>> >it
>> >can be drawing 17.9A.
>>
>> >Here's my confusion. 36000BTU/19SEER = 1895watts. At 220V this
>> >implies 8.6A. What's up with this?
>>
>> >I came up with a number of possibilities:
>> >*the 15.1A on the compressor load is the inrush current at startup
>> >*the compressor never runs at 100% duty cycle (this makes no sense to
>> >me).
>>
>> >What I want to know is when the compressor and fan are already
>> >running
>> >(that is neglecting any startup transients) how much current will this
>> >unit
>> >(compressor plus fan) be drawing from my subpanel.
>>
>> >Any help much appreciated.
>>
>> The manufacturer of your XL19i states on the equipment label that the
>> MCA (minimum circuit ampacity) for a 3 ton condenser is 22 amps and
>> the MOP is 35 amps.
>>
>> If warranty means anything to you, I would recommend you install the
>> electrical as per the manufacturers specifications. - Hide quoted
>> text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Yes, I understand this. I intend, in fact, to use 8 gauge wire to
> minimize the
> IR drop. I also intend to use a 30A breaker to protect the circuit,
> and I have enough
> capacity from my subpanel to supply 30A++. I merely wanted to
> *understand*
> (a concept apparently foreign to old Paul, here) how much current is
> actually
> flowing.
>
> I also stated that I intend to have a pro ( a licensed Trane dealer )
> install the unit,
> but I prefer to do my own electrical. I prefer to do my own work not
> to cheap out,
> but instead because on occasion (not often but on occasion) I have had
> poor
> quality work and damage done by Cro-magnon subs like Paul.
>
> So, back to my original question. If the RLA is 17.8amps, how does
> this reconcile
> with a 36kBTU 19 SEER unit?
>



Posted by on April 10, 2007, 7:58 pm

>On Apr 10, 3:50 pm, gof...@gonefishin.net wrote:
>> >I'm hoping I can get an explanation about SEER that makes sense.
>> >Here's
>> >my situation. I am going to have a Trane XL19i compressor added to
>> >my
>> >existing Trane XV90 heating system (the brand and particulars don't
>> >really
>> >matter...). I am going to have the HVAC work done by a pro, but I
>> >want
>> >to run the electric myself. I am trying to understand the electric
>> >load in
>> >some detail and it just doesn't add up.
>>
>> >I am considering a 36kBTU (3 ton) compressor. The spec sheet says
>> >that it needs a 30A 220V dedicated circuit (which is fine...), but I
>> >am
>> >trying to figure out what the *true* load on the subpanel will be.
>> >The spec
>> >sheet says that the max compressor draw is 15.1A and that the max fan
>> >draw is 2.8A. So, I figure that when the unit is running wide open
>> >it
>> >can be drawing 17.9A.
>>
>> >Here's my confusion. 36000BTU/19SEER = 1895watts. At 220V this
>> >implies 8.6A. What's up with this?
>>
>> >I came up with a number of possibilities:
>> >*the 15.1A on the compressor load is the inrush current at startup
>> >*the compressor never runs at 100% duty cycle (this makes no sense to
>> >me).
>>
>> >What I want to know is when the compressor and fan are already
>> >running
>> >(that is neglecting any startup transients) how much current will this
>> >unit
>> >(compressor plus fan) be drawing from my subpanel.
>>
>> >Any help much appreciated.
>>
>> The manufacturer of your XL19i states on the equipment label that the
>> MCA (minimum circuit ampacity) for a 3 ton condenser is 22 amps and
>> the MOP is 35 amps.
>>
>> If warranty means anything to you, I would recommend you install the
>> electrical as per the manufacturers specifications. - Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Yes, I understand this. I intend, in fact, to use 8 gauge wire to
>minimize the
>IR drop. I also intend to use a 30A breaker to protect the circuit,
>and I have enough
>capacity from my subpanel to supply 30A++. I merely wanted to
>*understand*
>(a concept apparently foreign to old Paul, here) how much current is
>actually
>flowing.
>
>I also stated that I intend to have a pro ( a licensed Trane dealer )
>install the unit,
>but I prefer to do my own electrical. I prefer to do my own work not
>to cheap out,
>but instead because on occasion (not often but on occasion) I have had
>poor
>quality work and damage done by Cro-magnon subs like Paul.
>
>So, back to my original question. If the RLA is 17.8amps, how does
>this reconcile
>with a 36kBTU 19 SEER unit?


suggest you take up your reconciliations with the equipment
manufacturer. their engineers can talk to your engineers and ya'all
can over-engineer things 'til you're blue in the face.

also suggest you learn every single thing you can about MOP as it
applies to ac units in particular. reconciliation will be much easier
for you ..........

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