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Subject Author Date
surge suppressor CD 06-02-2007
`--> Re: surge suppressor Jeffrey Lebowsk...06-11-2007
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Posted by CD on June 2, 2007, 3:08 pm
Last year our HVAC repair tech recommended that we should get a surge
suppressor installed on our furnace/ac unit to prevent damage that
might be caused by power sikes or electrical storms.
No one else I have talked to in the neighborhood has one of these
things.
Is it soemthing I should be concerned about?


Posted by Bubba on June 2, 2007, 3:59 pm

> Last year our HVAC repair tech recommended that we should get a surge
>suppressor installed on our furnace/ac unit to prevent damage that
>might be caused by power sikes or electrical storms.
>No one else I have talked to in the neighborhood has one of these
>things.
>Is it soemthing I should be concerned about?

Hey, if you want to live dangerously, then by all
means...........Knock yourself out.
Bubba

Posted by w_tom on June 3, 2007, 2:02 pm
> Last year our HVAC repair tech recommended that we should get a surge
> suppressor installed on our furnace/ac unit to prevent damage that
> might be caused by power sikes or electrical storms.
> No one else I have talked to in the neighborhood has one of these
> things.

Surges that may overwhelm protection already inside all appliances
(including the furnace) may occur typically once every seven years. A
number that can vary significantly even within same town due to
variables such as geology. A survey of the neighborhood may learn
more.

Do you install a $100 protector for the furnace? Or do you install
something so that everything - including furnace - is protected. When
is your smoke detector most important? Maybe during events that
create surges. What protects that smoke detector?

This solution has been standard even in telephone exchanges for what
- 100 years? Standard in commercial broadcasting, 911 emergency
response centers, etc. In no case is a surge protector called
protection. A surge protector is the device that 'connects to'
protection. Protection is earth ground.

Ben Franklin demonstrated the concept in 1752. Lightning obtained
earth ground destructively via church steeples. How did Franklin
divert a surge so that a steeple was not damaged? Lightning rod
connected to protection. That protection is earth ground.

Lightning striking a utility wire down the street can be a direct
strike to every household appliance including furnace, smoke
detectors, and bathroom GFCI. How is protection installed? Just like
Franklin's lightning rod, earth a surge before it can enter the
building. One protector connected 'less than 10 feet' to an upgraded
single point earth ground does what your telco installs to protect
their computer. Their computer is connected to overhead wires all
over town. Do they put a protector adjacent to the computer? Of
course not.

Every incoming wire in every cable must connect to earth ground.
Some cables such as cable TV and satellite dish are earthed only by a
ground block and wire. Others, such as telephone and AC electric,
require a protector to make a 'less than 10 foot' connection. IOW one
'whole house' protector for about $1 per protected appliance verses
how much for that furnace protector?

This was long. Many just have trouble learning that earthing - not
the protector - is protection. Many assume a protector will somehow
stop or absorb what even three miles of sky could not. And yet that
is what the protector adjacent to the furnace would do to be useful.
That furnace protector also does nothing for smoke detectors,
dishwasher, or bathroom GFCIs.

How to installed effective protection? First, building earthing
must be upgraded to and exceed post 1990 NEC requirements. IOW all
incoming utilities must be earthed to the same electrode (ground
rod). Earthing wires to that electrode must have no sharp bends, be
separated from other non-earthing wires, no splices, not inside
conduit, and all meet as the same earthing electrode.

Second, for utilities that require earthing via a protector,
manufacturers with responsible names such as Square D, GE, Leviton,
Cutler-Hammer, Intermatic, Siemens, etc manufacturer a 'whole house'
protector. Protector must exceed 1000 joules and 50,000 amps.
Protectors has a dedicated wire for that essential ('less than 10
foot') earthing connection. Some are sold for less than $50.

Names such as APC, Tripplite, Panamax, and Belkin are not listed.
Their protectors don't even have a dedicated earthing wire. How would
their products earth as Franklin demonstrated in 1752? Protectors
without that earthing wire quietly don't claim to protect from the
typically destructive surge - one that may overwhelm protection inside
the furnace.

Separation between the protector and furnace is part of a protection
'system'. But more important, distance to earth ground must be as
short as practical. That means an earthing wire from breaker box,
over top of a foundation, then down to an earthing electrode, is too
long. That wire must route through the foundation and down to
earthing electrode - short distance and no sharp bends is important.

What will a protector at the furnace do? What is the shortest path
to earth? If through a furnace, then the protector may have
compromised protection that is already inside that furnace.

Do not yet let anyone promote a protector as protection. Protection
is earthing. A protector is simply a connection to earthing. But if
that earthing connection is too long, then the protector may earth,
destructively, through and adjacent electronics such as a furnace.

Your telephone also needs a 'whole house' protector. Did you know
the telco installs one for free? Why? Because a 'whole house'
protector is so inexpensive and so effective. But again, you are
responsible for providing earthing. Is that telco protector connected
short to the same earthing electrode used by AC electric, cable TV,
etc? If not, then you still do not have protection.

If not obvious, most important component in this (your 'secondary')
protection system is the quality of and short connections to a single
point earth ground. Yes - 'secondary'. Also inspect your 'primary'
protection:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

An industry professional demonstrates the concept in an application
note. All incoming cables connect to a single point earthing
(directly or via a protector) before entering the building. Surge
protection required even on underground cables:
http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/technotes/tncr002.pdf

A protector will only be as effective as its earth ground. We earth
so that a destructive surge, maybe once every seven years, does not
enter a building. Therefore protection already inside all appliances
(and the furnace) will not be overwhelmed.


Posted by DIMwit on June 3, 2007, 6:33 pm
anybody ever tell you that you talk too much?

in the US we don't call it earthing; we call it grounding.

Surges can also occur phase to phase.

I need to get some aspirin.


>> Last year our HVAC repair tech recommended that we should get a surge
>> suppressor installed on our furnace/ac unit to prevent damage that
>> might be caused by power sikes or electrical storms.
>> No one else I have talked to in the neighborhood has one of these
>> things.
>
> Surges that may overwhelm protection already inside all appliances
> (including the furnace) may occur typically once every seven years. A
> number that can vary significantly even within same town due to
> variables such as geology. A survey of the neighborhood may learn
> more.
>
> Do you install a $100 protector for the furnace? Or do you install
> something so that everything - including furnace - is protected. When
> is your smoke detector most important? Maybe during events that
> create surges. What protects that smoke detector?
>
> This solution has been standard even in telephone exchanges for what
> - 100 years? Standard in commercial broadcasting, 911 emergency
> response centers, etc. In no case is a surge protector called
> protection. A surge protector is the device that 'connects to'
> protection. Protection is earth ground.
>
> Ben Franklin demonstrated the concept in 1752. Lightning obtained
> earth ground destructively via church steeples. How did Franklin
> divert a surge so that a steeple was not damaged? Lightning rod
> connected to protection. That protection is earth ground.
>
> Lightning striking a utility wire down the street can be a direct
> strike to every household appliance including furnace, smoke
> detectors, and bathroom GFCI. How is protection installed? Just like
> Franklin's lightning rod, earth a surge before it can enter the
> building. One protector connected 'less than 10 feet' to an upgraded
> single point earth ground does what your telco installs to protect
> their computer. Their computer is connected to overhead wires all
> over town. Do they put a protector adjacent to the computer? Of
> course not.
>
> Every incoming wire in every cable must connect to earth ground.
> Some cables such as cable TV and satellite dish are earthed only by a
> ground block and wire. Others, such as telephone and AC electric,
> require a protector to make a 'less than 10 foot' connection. IOW one
> 'whole house' protector for about $1 per protected appliance verses
> how much for that furnace protector?
>
> This was long. Many just have trouble learning that earthing - not
> the protector - is protection. Many assume a protector will somehow
> stop or absorb what even three miles of sky could not. And yet that
> is what the protector adjacent to the furnace would do to be useful.
> That furnace protector also does nothing for smoke detectors,
> dishwasher, or bathroom GFCIs.
>
> How to installed effective protection? First, building earthing
> must be upgraded to and exceed post 1990 NEC requirements. IOW all
> incoming utilities must be earthed to the same electrode (ground
> rod). Earthing wires to that electrode must have no sharp bends, be
> separated from other non-earthing wires, no splices, not inside
> conduit, and all meet as the same earthing electrode.
>
> Second, for utilities that require earthing via a protector,
> manufacturers with responsible names such as Square D, GE, Leviton,
> Cutler-Hammer, Intermatic, Siemens, etc manufacturer a 'whole house'
> protector. Protector must exceed 1000 joules and 50,000 amps.
> Protectors has a dedicated wire for that essential ('less than 10
> foot') earthing connection. Some are sold for less than $50.
>
> Names such as APC, Tripplite, Panamax, and Belkin are not listed.
> Their protectors don't even have a dedicated earthing wire. How would
> their products earth as Franklin demonstrated in 1752? Protectors
> without that earthing wire quietly don't claim to protect from the
> typically destructive surge - one that may overwhelm protection inside
> the furnace.
>
> Separation between the protector and furnace is part of a protection
> 'system'. But more important, distance to earth ground must be as
> short as practical. That means an earthing wire from breaker box,
> over top of a foundation, then down to an earthing electrode, is too
> long. That wire must route through the foundation and down to
> earthing electrode - short distance and no sharp bends is important.
>
> What will a protector at the furnace do? What is the shortest path
> to earth? If through a furnace, then the protector may have
> compromised protection that is already inside that furnace.
>
> Do not yet let anyone promote a protector as protection. Protection
> is earthing. A protector is simply a connection to earthing. But if
> that earthing connection is too long, then the protector may earth,
> destructively, through and adjacent electronics such as a furnace.
>
> Your telephone also needs a 'whole house' protector. Did you know
> the telco installs one for free? Why? Because a 'whole house'
> protector is so inexpensive and so effective. But again, you are
> responsible for providing earthing. Is that telco protector connected
> short to the same earthing electrode used by AC electric, cable TV,
> etc? If not, then you still do not have protection.
>
> If not obvious, most important component in this (your 'secondary')
> protection system is the quality of and short connections to a single
> point earth ground. Yes - 'secondary'. Also inspect your 'primary'
> protection:
> http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html
>
> An industry professional demonstrates the concept in an application
> note. All incoming cables connect to a single point earthing
> (directly or via a protector) before entering the building. Surge
> protection required even on underground cables:
> http://www.erico.com/public/library/fep/technotes/tncr002.pdf
>
> A protector will only be as effective as its earth ground. We earth
> so that a destructive surge, maybe once every seven years, does not
> enter a building. Therefore protection already inside all appliances
> (and the furnace) will not be overwhelmed.
>



Posted by w_tom on June 3, 2007, 10:30 pm
> anybody ever tell you that you talk too much?
> in the US we don't call it earthing; we call it grounding.
> Surges can also occur phase to phase.
> I need to get some aspirin.

There are earth ground, digital ground, safety ground, a ground
between audio components, floating ground, analog ground,
counterpoise, equipment ground, and ground inside a mains breaker
box. Why a ground wire with no sharp bends, no splices, and not
inside conduit? Because ground even at opposite ends of a wire is
different.

Also noted were surges made irrelevant by protection inside the
furnace controller. Phase to phase surges are irrelevant AND made
even less problematic by a single 'whole house' protector that earths
typically destructive surges. Protection already inside a furnace
controller and other household appliances is not overwhelmed.

Was that post long? Well proven technology is little understood
even by electricians if only trained in safety codes - not in the
radio frequency energy so common in typically destructive surges.
Surge protection involve electrical concepts often not taught to
electricians. Note referenced to impedance which is why wire length
(not wire gauge) is important.

A furnace protector will only be as effective as its earth ground
which is why superior protection is installed where surges would enter
a building. Earthing - not a protector - is the protection. Which
ground is relevant? In the US, the important ground is a single point
earth ground.


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