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Posted by on October 6, 2009, 10:58 pm
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:34:48 -0400, salty@dog.com wrote:
>On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:15:09 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>wrote:
>>>clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:30:21 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Steve Barker wrote:
>>>>>>> hibb wrote:
>>>>>>>> Getting ready for the first oil change in my 2009 Matrix and read the
>>>>>>>> owner's manual and found that they recommend 0W20 oil fer this thang.
>>>>>>>> K-Mart doesn't carry it. Menards doesn't carry it. Napa dealer didn't
>>>>>>>> have it but they did have the filter for the car.
>>>>>>>> I plan, for the time being, to start changing my own oil again. Oil
>>>>>>>> change places tend to tear up the undercarriage cover to get to the
>>>>>>>> oil filter. So, where is a good source to get the oil and filter and
>>>>>>>> still get a decent price. Right now, it looks like the cost of the oil
>>>>>>>> and filter is about what I would pay to get the oil changed by
>>>>>>>> somebody else.
>>>>>>>> Thanks, David
>>>>>>> since most people are hell bent on using multiviscosity oil, just use
>>>>>>> good old 10w30. Personally, i use straight 30 in all my vehicles year
>>>>>>> 'round.
>>>>>>> steve
>>>>>> Some people do care about compatibility issues etc because additives
>>>>>> vary with viscosity. Running straight weight oil is a relic from the
>>>>>> long ago past. A car engine isn't some industrial gear box that is
>>>>>> always in the same temperature range. Using a lubricant that changes
>>>>>> viscosity as required is quite sensible and good engineering. This is
>>>>>> especially true where using a heavy straight weight oil would make the
>>>>>> vehicle unusable for half the year because you could never start it.
>>>>> That is a blanket statement that doesn't take into account, some of us
>>>>> live in the tropics where 30w always flows.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It was an accurate statement. He said it was "especially true where
>>>> using a heavy straight weight oil would make the
>>>> vehicle unusable for half the year because you could never start it."
>>>>
>>>> That's in about 1/2 to 2/3 of the world for 1/4 to 1/2 the time.
>>>Exactly, no blankets were used in the construction of my post..
>>My only point is you shouldn't beat someone up about their experience
>>on an international newsgroup based on your experience in the arctic.
>>The other thing I would say is just about any oil will work in most
>>engines for the life most people expect out of their car. Most cars
>>are junked long before the engine blows up. In the little latitudes I
>>care more about what the oil pressure is on a hot day than what the
>>cold cranking characteristics are. Multi viscosity oils don't seem to
>>hold up as long. 10w30 is 10 weight oil with a magic ingredient that
>>makes it 30 when it gets hot ... until that ingredient stops working.
>>Then it is just 10 weight or less
>That is not what multi-viscosity oils do, or how they behave. No
>wonder you are confused.
It's close.
Long chain polymer VI improvers coil up and thicken the oil somewhat
when hot. (not thicher than when cold, but thicher than they would be
without them) If and when these long-chain polymers shear, they loose
their ability to stabilize the viscosity.
This is about half of how multigrade oils work. At the other end,
pour point depressants keep the oil from thickening as much when cold,
and friction modifiers reduce the cold strat friction, reducing the
cranking power required to start the cold engine (which is part of the
SAE test sequence for the XW part of the rating - so in reality a
10W30 oil is closer to a 15 weight oil with addatives - or even a 20,
in the "real world"
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Posted by on October 6, 2009, 10:51 pm
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:15:09 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>wrote:
>>clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>> On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:30:21 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Steve Barker wrote:
>>>>>> hibb wrote:
>>>>>>> Getting ready for the first oil change in my 2009 Matrix and read the
>>>>>>> owner's manual and found that they recommend 0W20 oil fer this thang.
>>>>>>> K-Mart doesn't carry it. Menards doesn't carry it. Napa dealer didn't
>>>>>>> have it but they did have the filter for the car.
>>>>>>> I plan, for the time being, to start changing my own oil again. Oil
>>>>>>> change places tend to tear up the undercarriage cover to get to the
>>>>>>> oil filter. So, where is a good source to get the oil and filter and
>>>>>>> still get a decent price. Right now, it looks like the cost of the oil
>>>>>>> and filter is about what I would pay to get the oil changed by
>>>>>>> somebody else.
>>>>>>> Thanks, David
>>>>>> since most people are hell bent on using multiviscosity oil, just use
>>>>>> good old 10w30. Personally, i use straight 30 in all my vehicles year
>>>>>> 'round.
>>>>>> steve
>>>>> Some people do care about compatibility issues etc because additives
>>>>> vary with viscosity. Running straight weight oil is a relic from the
>>>>> long ago past. A car engine isn't some industrial gear box that is
>>>>> always in the same temperature range. Using a lubricant that changes
>>>>> viscosity as required is quite sensible and good engineering. This is
>>>>> especially true where using a heavy straight weight oil would make the
>>>>> vehicle unusable for half the year because you could never start it.
>>>> That is a blanket statement that doesn't take into account, some of us
>>>> live in the tropics where 30w always flows.
>>>
>>>
>>> It was an accurate statement. He said it was "especially true where
>>> using a heavy straight weight oil would make the
>>> vehicle unusable for half the year because you could never start it."
>>>
>>> That's in about 1/2 to 2/3 of the world for 1/4 to 1/2 the time.
>>Exactly, no blankets were used in the construction of my post..
>My only point is you shouldn't beat someone up about their experience
>on an international newsgroup based on your experience in the arctic.
>The other thing I would say is just about any oil will work in most
>engines for the life most people expect out of their car. Most cars
>are junked long before the engine blows up. In the little latitudes I
>care more about what the oil pressure is on a hot day than what the
>cold cranking characteristics are. Multi viscosity oils don't seem to
>hold up as long. 10w30 is 10 weight oil with a magic ingredient that
>makes it 30 when it gets hot ... until that ingredient stops working.
>Then it is just 10 weight or less
I'll "kinda" agree with you.
Even here in Cenral Ontario, the "interlaken: region " of the "great
white north" it gets hot enough in the summer that I do not trust an
Xw20 or Xw30 conventional oil for highway use.
My summer oil in the 2.5 Mystique is 10W40 - changed before 6000 km
(usually before 5000).
The 3.0 liter Chrysler (mitsubishi) that preceded it used 10W40 in the
winter and 20W50 in the summer for over 240,000 km an 18 years, as did
both 3.0 liter Aerostars.
My 2003 PT Cruiser runs 5W30 full synthetic Mannheim oil year round.
3 changes a year - no more than 4 months on a change which varies from
5-8000 km. If I hit 8000 km before 4 months (happens once in a while)
it gets changed.
Today's "quality" multigrades do not suffer from serious shear
degredation of viscosity in normal use with 5000km change intervals.
With 10,000km change intervals (particularly summer highway driving
with a load) I'd be worrying.
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Posted by Steve Barker on October 5, 2009, 8:02 pm
George wrote:
> Steve Barker wrote:
>> hibb wrote:
>>> Getting ready for the first oil change in my 2009 Matrix and read the
>>> owner's manual and found that they recommend 0W20 oil fer this thang.
>>> K-Mart doesn't carry it. Menards doesn't carry it. Napa dealer didn't
>>> have it but they did have the filter for the car.
>>> I plan, for the time being, to start changing my own oil again. Oil
>>> change places tend to tear up the undercarriage cover to get to the
>>> oil filter. So, where is a good source to get the oil and filter and
>>> still get a decent price. Right now, it looks like the cost of the oil
>>> and filter is about what I would pay to get the oil changed by
>>> somebody else.
>>> Thanks, David
>> since most people are hell bent on using multiviscosity oil, just use
>> good old 10w30. Personally, i use straight 30 in all my vehicles year
>> 'round.
>> steve
>
> Some people do care about compatibility issues etc because additives
> vary with viscosity. Running straight weight oil is a relic from the
> long ago past. A car engine isn't some industrial gear box that is
> always in the same temperature range. Using a lubricant that changes
> viscosity as required is quite sensible and good engineering. This is
> especially true where using a heavy straight weight oil would make the
> vehicle unusable for half the year because you could never start it.
blah blah blah. did you notice that the straight 30 still has the same
sg or sh rating as your wonderful multi-vis? Also, multiple hundreds of
thousands of miles on my '02, '03 and '04 vehicles with no ill effect.
the multi-vis thing is a scam for gas mileage ratings only.
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Posted by George on October 6, 2009, 8:06 am
Steve Barker wrote:
> George wrote:
>> Steve Barker wrote:
>>> hibb wrote:
>>>> Getting ready for the first oil change in my 2009 Matrix and read the
>>>> owner's manual and found that they recommend 0W20 oil fer this thang.
>>>> K-Mart doesn't carry it. Menards doesn't carry it. Napa dealer didn't
>>>> have it but they did have the filter for the car.
>>>> I plan, for the time being, to start changing my own oil again. Oil
>>>> change places tend to tear up the undercarriage cover to get to the
>>>> oil filter. So, where is a good source to get the oil and filter and
>>>> still get a decent price. Right now, it looks like the cost of the oil
>>>> and filter is about what I would pay to get the oil changed by
>>>> somebody else.
>>>> Thanks, David
>>> since most people are hell bent on using multiviscosity oil, just use
>>> good old 10w30. Personally, i use straight 30 in all my vehicles
>>> year 'round.
>>> steve
>> Some people do care about compatibility issues etc because additives
>> vary with viscosity. Running straight weight oil is a relic from the
>> long ago past. A car engine isn't some industrial gear box that is
>> always in the same temperature range. Using a lubricant that changes
>> viscosity as required is quite sensible and good engineering. This is
>> especially true where using a heavy straight weight oil would make the
>> vehicle unusable for half the year because you could never start it.
>
> blah blah blah. did you notice that the straight 30 still has the same
> sg or sh rating as your wonderful multi-vis? Also, multiple hundreds of
> thousands of miles on my '02, '03 and '04 vehicles with no ill effect.
> the multi-vis thing is a scam for gas mileage ratings only.
>
Sounds like quite a conspiracy since multi viscosity has been around and
in use since before I was born. Sometimes the "new" thing isn't evil
just because you think it is.
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Posted by Steve Barker on October 6, 2009, 7:39 pm
George wrote:
> Steve Barker wrote:
>> George wrote:
>>> Steve Barker wrote:
>>>> hibb wrote:
>>>>> Getting ready for the first oil change in my 2009 Matrix and read the
>>>>> owner's manual and found that they recommend 0W20 oil fer this thang.
>>>>> K-Mart doesn't carry it. Menards doesn't carry it. Napa dealer didn't
>>>>> have it but they did have the filter for the car.
>>>>> I plan, for the time being, to start changing my own oil again. Oil
>>>>> change places tend to tear up the undercarriage cover to get to the
>>>>> oil filter. So, where is a good source to get the oil and filter and
>>>>> still get a decent price. Right now, it looks like the cost of the oil
>>>>> and filter is about what I would pay to get the oil changed by
>>>>> somebody else.
>>>>> Thanks, David
>>>> since most people are hell bent on using multiviscosity oil, just
>>>> use good old 10w30. Personally, i use straight 30 in all my
>>>> vehicles year 'round.
>>>> steve
>>> Some people do care about compatibility issues etc because additives
>>> vary with viscosity. Running straight weight oil is a relic from the
>>> long ago past. A car engine isn't some industrial gear box that is
>>> always in the same temperature range. Using a lubricant that changes
>>> viscosity as required is quite sensible and good engineering. This is
>>> especially true where using a heavy straight weight oil would make
>>> the vehicle unusable for half the year because you could never start it.
>> blah blah blah. did you notice that the straight 30 still has the
>> same sg or sh rating as your wonderful multi-vis? Also, multiple
>> hundreds of thousands of miles on my '02, '03 and '04 vehicles with no
>> ill effect. the multi-vis thing is a scam for gas mileage ratings only.
> Sounds like quite a conspiracy since multi viscosity has been around and
> in use since before I was born. Sometimes the "new" thing isn't evil
> just because you think it is.
I never said evil. Just unnecessary. Waste of money.
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