1920's wiring....

Posted by RBM on October 27, 2009, 7:26 pm

>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:38:12 -0400, "Existential Angst"

>>>esp. when you consider that many grounds are really crappy, often
>>>using steel cables instead of copper.

>> Huh?
>> The neutral conductor in triplex is the same 1350 alloy of aluminum as
>> the phase conductors but it may be 2 sizes smaller assuming a fairly
>> large line/line load will be present.

> Here, the neutral AND ground wires in house cable are copper, but I was
> talking about from the weatherhead of the house out to the pole -- the
> house copper is attached to stranded steel support cable -- at least in my
> neck of the woods in NY. And then, from the pole to whereever, I don't
> know what the ground/neutral is, but I suspect it continues as the steel
> tension cable for the other hot copper wires.
> I've asked linemen, but these guys don't know -- I get a different answer
> with each guy I ask.
> --
> EA

In "your" neck of the woods, in NY, you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a
copper service entrance cable, conductors in conduit, yes, but cable no, not
in the last thirty some odd years, and a ConEd service drop is aluminum,
except for a steel strand in the bare messenger.

Posted by on October 27, 2009, 10:15 pm

>>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:38:12 -0400, "Existential Angst"
>>>>esp. when you consider that many grounds are really crappy, often
>>>>using steel cables instead of copper.
>>> Huh?
>>> The neutral conductor in triplex is the same 1350 alloy of aluminum as
>>> the phase conductors but it may be 2 sizes smaller assuming a fairly
>>> large line/line load will be present.

>> Here, the neutral AND ground wires in house cable are copper, but I was
>> talking about from the weatherhead of the house out to the pole -- the
>> house copper is attached to stranded steel support cable -- at least in my
>> neck of the woods in NY. And then, from the pole to whereever, I don't
>> know what the ground/neutral is, but I suspect it continues as the steel
>> tension cable for the other hot copper wires.
>> I've asked linemen, but these guys don't know -- I get a different answer
>> with each guy I ask.
>> --
>> EA

>In "your" neck of the woods, in NY, you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a
>copper service entrance cable, conductors in conduit, yes, but cable no, not
>in the last thirty some odd years, and a ConEd service drop is aluminum,
>except for a steel strand in the bare messenger.

Which is required in order to give the cable enough tensile strength
to self support.

Posted by on October 28, 2009, 11:42 am

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:38:08 -0400, "Existential Angst"

>> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:38:12 -0400, "Existential Angst"

>>>esp. when you consider that many grounds are really crappy, often
>>>using steel cables instead of copper.

>Here, the neutral AND ground wires in house cable are copper, but I was
>talking about from the weatherhead of the house out to the pole -- the house
>copper is attached to stranded steel support cable -- at least in my neck of
>the woods in NY. And then, from the pole to whereever, I don't know what
>the ground/neutral is, but I suspect it continues as the steel tension cable
>for the other hot copper wires.
>I've asked linemen, but these guys don't know -- I get a different answer
>with each guy I ask.

I gave you the answer. The aerial drop triplex is alloy 1350 aluminum
... all 3 wires, along with virtually all aerial cable.
That is what the alloy was designed for.
It is also used in some aircraft construction.

Posted by Existential Angst on October 28, 2009, 12:08 pm

> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:38:08 -0400, "Existential Angst"

>>Here, the neutral AND ground wires in house cable are copper, but I was
>>talking about from the weatherhead of the house out to the pole -- the
>>house
>>copper is attached to stranded steel support cable -- at least in my neck
>>of
>>the woods in NY. And then, from the pole to whereever, I don't know what
>>the ground/neutral is, but I suspect it continues as the steel tension
>>cable
>>for the other hot copper wires.
>>I've asked linemen, but these guys don't know -- I get a different answer
>>with each guy I ask.

> I gave you the answer. The aerial drop triplex is alloy 1350 aluminum
> ... all 3 wires, along with virtually all aerial cable.
> That is what the alloy was designed for.
> It is also used in some aircraft construction.

Indeed, it does look like that twisted support/guy wire is aluminum!

So what is a 1350 alloy, visavis a 6061 alloy? Do you know the ohms per
foot of each, vs. that of copper?
--
EA

Posted by on October 28, 2009, 1:17 pm

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:08:17 -0400, "Existential Angst"

>So what is a 1350 alloy, visavis a 6061 alloy? Do you know the ohms per
>foot of each, vs. that of copper?

I am not sure what 6061 is but the 1350 is 99.5% aluminum.

According to table 8 in the NEC the resistance for #2 (typical
residential service drop up to 200a) is
.194 ohms per 1000 ft copper
.319 ohms per 1000 ft aluminum

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1920's wiring.... - Page 4