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A/C not starting up - Help needed Peter 07-29-2006
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Posted by Peter on July 29, 2006, 7:23 pm
Need a little help over here......

I have a condo.... with a two part Bryant A/C system. One part is the
compressor and
squirrel cage blower vented through a brick wall to the outside. The
compressor pumps
freon to a ceiling unit which contains blower and distributes the cooled air
into
ductwork.

A/C system is not turning on..... I'm not getting 25 vac ac to the wall unit.
Backtracking the wire...it seems that the low voltage is generated by a
transformer
and relay in the ceiling unit. Line Voltage is present on both units, but a
measurement on what should be the low voltage circuit does not show any voltage.


So, here's why help is so desperately needed. We called BGE Home two weeks
ago,
they scheduled a technician for last Monday afternoon. I lose 1/2 day from
work....BGEHome technician walks in and says.... you need to remove the ceiling
panel
before I can work on the system. He writes a bill for $85.00 and leaves.
Tuesday I
arrange people to come in and remove the ceiling panel to the ceiling a/c. Not
a
difficult job. I place a service call...BGE home says....we'll have a
technician out on
Friday. Friday comes, I have the ceiling company standing by, ready to
replace the
a/c ceiling panel. BGE Home technician calls and leaves this message, "I
won't be out
there today. Bye"....

So the ceiling people leave...2 people at 75.00 per hour for 4 hours waiting for
the BGE
Home people. Irate we call BGE... They promise PROMISE AND PROMISE....WE WILL
have a technician out there on Saturday. Again...we wait. A technician walks
in, says
"Oh, I don't work on these...I'm only an instructor" and walks back out the
door.
Wait, we say...'who's going to fix this" and he says " Oh, I'll call the
regular
repair rep...he'll be out tonight. So I call BGE Home and speak to the "duty
manager"
who is your typical lousy customer service dead end guy.... the one who is
supposed to
get the irate calls and doesn't give a rat's ass about customer service. He
promises to
send a 'senior technician' out on Monday. Again someone has to be home from 12
to 4. I
ask him if he see's ANYTHING wrong with the whole scenario. He says "Oh, I'm
not a
technician". This is BGE Home in Washington D.C. a somewhat major city.

BGE Home has ONE telephone number for the entire operation.... so corporate
mid-level
management is well protected from their customer base.... sound familiar ???

Any help is appreciated...... if you live in Washington, D.C. and have a good
service company please let me know. Secondly, is there someplace online where
I can get a good service manual for the unit...provided I have a unit number....
and
Thirdly what's a good logistics source for Bryant air conditioners ???

What signals should I be looking for in the low voltage circuit....there are 5
legs on
the relay which is mounted onto a step down transformer.....probably 2 line
input, 2
output and there is a 5th wire in the center of the relay.

Thanking you in advance !!!


Peter

PS... To the doom sayers... it's okay... I had years of experience of
troubleshooting
computer and aviation electronics.... so I won't fry, I won't try to recharge
the
high pressure side of the compressor and I promise to put all the screws back in
the ceiling panel when finished. Did I miss anything ??? I shouldn't have to
be
doing this myself.....





Posted by Speedy Jim on July 29, 2006, 8:32 pm
Peter wrote:

> Need a little help over here......
>
> I have a condo.... with a two part Bryant A/C system. One part is the
compressor and
> squirrel cage blower vented through a brick wall to the outside. The
compressor pumps
> freon to a ceiling unit which contains blower and distributes the cooled air
into
> ductwork.
>
> A/C system is not turning on..... I'm not getting 25 vac ac to the wall unit.
> Backtracking the wire...it seems that the low voltage is generated by a
transformer
> and relay in the ceiling unit. Line Voltage is present on both units, but a
> measurement on what should be the low voltage circuit does not show any
voltage.
>
>

<SNIP>

Argh! I feel for you.

First, there should be a controls diagram *somewhere*, probably
at the ceiling unit.

Measure if there is 24V right at the xfmr terminals. Work from there.

Jim
ex-DC'er


Posted by Peter on July 29, 2006, 9:04 pm
There is a control diagram on one of the squirrel cage housings...trouble is it
is covered
in dirt and all attempts to clean the dirt off just obliterates the diagram.
This is
curious as the rest of the housing looks very clean and the unit itself looks
very clean.
Just the diagram seems to be collecting dirt.

No 24V (no low voltage) coming off the terminals....... . Would it do any
good to
remove the relay and transformer to ohm them out ??? Is there anyway to obtain
a replacement part ???

I'm also thinking of trying to get a 24vac source to energize and test the rest
of the
circuitry, using one of the old telephone step down transformers....low
voltage low
current... any drawbacks to this method ??? (other than turning on line
voltage to
test).


I'll be back there tomorrow....too hot to spend the night (condo's suck up heat
and
the windows aren't the best in the world). Any other answers or thoughts are
appreciated
!!


>Peter wrote:
>
>> Need a little help over here......
>>
>> I have a condo.... with a two part Bryant A/C system. One part is the
compressor and
>> squirrel cage blower vented through a brick wall to the outside. The
compressor pumps
>> freon to a ceiling unit which contains blower and distributes the cooled air
into
>> ductwork.
>>
>> A/C system is not turning on..... I'm not getting 25 vac ac to the wall
unit.
>> Backtracking the wire...it seems that the low voltage is generated by a
transformer
>> and relay in the ceiling unit. Line Voltage is present on both units, but
a
>> measurement on what should be the low voltage circuit does not show any
voltage.
>>
>>
>
><SNIP>
>
>Argh! I feel for you.
>
>First, there should be a controls diagram *somewhere*, probably
>at the ceiling unit.
>
>Measure if there is 24V right at the xfmr terminals. Work from there.
>
>Jim
>ex-DC'er


Posted by Speedy Jim on July 29, 2006, 9:09 pm
Peter wrote:

> There is a control diagram on one of the squirrel cage housings...trouble is
it is covered
> in dirt and all attempts to clean the dirt off just obliterates the diagram.
This is
> curious as the rest of the housing looks very clean and the unit itself looks
very clean.
> Just the diagram seems to be collecting dirt.
>
> No 24V (no low voltage) coming off the terminals....... . Would it do any
good to
> remove the relay and transformer to ohm them out ??? Is there anyway to
obtain
> a replacement part ???

See if there is 120V on the xfmr primary. If there is, Ohm out
the primary. The relay shouldn't be needed just to get 24V from the
xfmr. If no 120V on primary, work back.

A tel. xfmr won't have enough voltage. Big Box store might have
HVAC basic components like this.

Jim

>
> I'm also thinking of trying to get a 24vac source to energize and test the
rest of the
> circuitry, using one of the old telephone step down transformers....low
voltage low
> current... any drawbacks to this method ??? (other than turning on line
voltage to
> test).
>
>
> I'll be back there tomorrow....too hot to spend the night (condo's suck up
heat and
> the windows aren't the best in the world). Any other answers or thoughts are
appreciated
> !!
>
>
>
>>Peter wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Need a little help over here......
>>>
>>>I have a condo.... with a two part Bryant A/C system. One part is the
compressor and
>>>squirrel cage blower vented through a brick wall to the outside. The
compressor pumps
>>>freon to a ceiling unit which contains blower and distributes the cooled air
into
>>>ductwork.
>>>
>>>A/C system is not turning on..... I'm not getting 25 vac ac to the wall
unit.
>>>Backtracking the wire...it seems that the low voltage is generated by a
transformer
>>>and relay in the ceiling unit. Line Voltage is present on both units, but
a
>>>measurement on what should be the low voltage circuit does not show any
voltage.
>>>
>>>
>>
>><SNIP>
>>
>>Argh! I feel for you.
>>
>>First, there should be a controls diagram *somewhere*, probably
>>at the ceiling unit.
>>
>>Measure if there is 24V right at the xfmr terminals. Work from there.
>>
>>Jim
>>ex-DC'er
>
>

Posted by Stormin Mormon on July 29, 2006, 11:43 pm
Radio Shack or Home Cheepo might have a suitable transformer.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.

Peter wrote:

>
> No 24V (no low voltage) coming off the terminals....... . Would
it do any good to
> remove the relay and transformer to ohm them out ??? Is there
anyway to obtain
> a replacement part ???

See if there is 120V on the xfmr primary. If there is, Ohm out
the primary. The relay shouldn't be needed just to get 24V from the
xfmr. If no 120V on primary, work back.

A tel. xfmr won't have enough voltage. Big Box store might have
HVAC basic components like this.

Jim




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