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ATTN: electrical wizards, ceiling fan and 3 ways......

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ATTN: electrical wizards, ceiling fan and 3 ways...... Steve Barker 11-12-2007
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Posted by Wayne Whitney on November 13, 2007, 1:18 pm

> Is this acceptable practice to have 2 potential hots in a cable and
> no common? (cable#2 in the text).

My understanding of the US 2002 NEC is that this is allowed for
non-metallic sheath cables as long as all current-carrying conductors
of a single circuit enter or leave any ferrous boxes through the same
hole. See 300.3(B)(3).

> I've seen 12/2/2 but i believe that contains two commons.

My understanding of the US 2002 NEC is that a white insulated
conductor in a cable can be used as an ungrounded conductor ("hot") if
you reidentify with another color at every termination and point at
which it is accessible. See 200.7(C)(1).

As to your layout, if I understand correctly the physical situation is
as follows:

Kitchen door Ceiling fan Backdoor
2 way fan switch Light 3 way light switch
3 way light switch
Incoming power here

If this is correct, you need 4 conductors (plus EGC) from the Kitchen
door to the Ceiling fan (neutral, fan hot, two travelers for the
light) and 3 conductors from the Ceiling fan to the Backdoor (two
travelers for the light, return light hot). You can get the 4
conductors from the Kitchen door to Ceiling fan with two 12/2 cables,
reidentifying the white conductor in one cable. You can get the 3
conductors from the Ceiling fan to the Backdoor with a single 12/3
cable, reidentifying the white conductor.

Cheers, Wayne


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Posted by Toller on November 13, 2007, 2:47 pm

>
>> Is this acceptable practice to have 2 potential hots in a cable and
>> no common? (cable#2 in the text).
>
> My understanding of the US 2002 NEC is that this is allowed for
> non-metallic sheath cables as long as all current-carrying conductors
> of a single circuit enter or leave any ferrous boxes through the same
> hole. See 300.3(B)(3).
>
>> I've seen 12/2/2 but i believe that contains two commons.
>
> My understanding of the US 2002 NEC is that a white insulated
> conductor in a cable can be used as an ungrounded conductor ("hot") if
> you reidentify with another color at every termination and point at
> which it is accessible. See 200.7(C)(1).
>
> As to your layout, if I understand correctly the physical situation is
> as follows:
>
> Kitchen door Ceiling fan Backdoor
> 2 way fan switch Light 3 way light switch
> 3 way light switch
> Incoming power here
>
> If this is correct, you need 4 conductors (plus EGC) from the Kitchen
> door to the Ceiling fan (neutral, fan hot, two travelers for the
> light)

two travelers for the light? The light and the fan each have terminals for
a hot and a neutral; where exactly are you going to attach two travelers?



Posted by Wayne Whitney on November 13, 2007, 5:09 pm

> two travelers for the light? The light and the fan each have terminals for
> a hot and a neutral; where exactly are you going to attach two travelers?

The OP indicated that he wishes to have two separate switches that
control the light, so he'll need two 3 way switches connected by a
pair of travelers.

Cheers, Wayne

Posted by Toller on November 13, 2007, 5:16 pm

>
>> two travelers for the light? The light and the fan each have terminals
>> for
>> a hot and a neutral; where exactly are you going to attach two travelers?
>
> The OP indicated that he wishes to have two separate switches that
> control the light, so he'll need two 3 way switches connected by a
> pair of travelers.
>
Don't you read your own stupid post?
"If this is correct, you need 4 conductors (plus EGC) from the Kitchen
door to the Ceiling fan (neutral, fan hot, two travelers for the
light)"
Again, where are you going to connect the two travelers to the light?
You don't use more than 3 conductors anywhere.



Posted by Wayne Whitney on November 13, 2007, 5:28 pm
>
>
> > "If this is correct, you need 4 conductors (plus EGC) from the
> > Kitchen door to the Ceiling fan (neutral, fan hot, two travelers
> > for the light)"
>
> Again, where are you going to connect the two travelers to the light?
> You don't use more than 3 conductors anywhere.

As I understand the OP, at the "kitchen door", incoming power is
available, and two switches are desired, one for the fan, and one
3-way for the light. The second 3-way switch for the light is to be
across the room, at the "back door". So the two travelers go from the
"kitchen door" 3-way switch to the "back door" 3-way switch.

Assuming the cable runs are "kitchen door" <-> ceiling fixture <->
"back door", I don't see anyway to achieve the functionality desired
without 4 conductors from the "kitchen door" to the ceiling fixture.

Cheers, Wayne


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