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Another GFCI question; sorry!

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Another GFCI question; sorry! terry 05-15-2008
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Posted by terry on May 15, 2008, 2:23 am
Ran a three wire #12 AWG (Black, Red, White plus ground) from 20 amp
DP breaker to a duplex NEMA 230 volt 15 amp outlet above a garage work
bench, (concrete floor), then extended 115 volts (Black, White and
ground) from it to two regular duplex 115 volt 15 amp outlets also
mounted above bench. Purpose of the 230 is that we have a couple of
230 volt tools. Purpose of the 115 v. outlets, regular tools and small
bench mounted grinder.

Thinking best way to GFCI all those outlets would be to have a GFCI
breaker, BUT; with either of 115 duplex in use there will be unequal
currents in the two legs of the GFCI breaker. So it will trip????

Is there such a thing as a standard North American 230 volt GFCI
outlet? And if so would it also protect any 115 outlets downstream of
it?

Or GFCI the first outlet following the 230 volt so it protects both of
the 115 volt ones? The 230 volt outlet then being non GFCI protected.
Or blank it off?

Same thing could occur with what here is called a 'split outlet' (can
double the capacity and/or allow two heavier appliances, especially
kitchens, plugged into both halves of same outlet) whereby the tab
between upper and lower halves of a duplex 115 volt outlet is removed
and opposite 115 volt legs wired to each half.

BTW; As a separate topic; while we have several GFCI protected outside
outlets, if necessary to extend power outside from a non GFCI outlet
inside the house we used a GFCI duplex outlet that is of a type that
does not provided downstream protection to other outlets and mounted
it on end of a substantial extension.

Comments welcome. TIA

Posted by buffalobill on May 15, 2008, 3:02 am
> Ran a three wire #12 AWG (Black, Red, White plus ground) from 20 amp
> DP breaker to a duplex NEMA 230 volt 15 amp outlet above a garage work
> bench, (concrete floor), then extended 115 volts (Black, White and
> ground) from it to two regular duplex 115 volt 15 amp outlets also
> mounted above bench. Purpose of the 230 is that we have a couple of
> 230 volt tools. Purpose of the 115 v. outlets, regular tools and small
> bench mounted grinder.
>
> Thinking best way to GFCI all those outlets would be to have a GFCI
> breaker, BUT; with either of 115 duplex in use there will be unequal
> currents in the two legs of the GFCI breaker. So it will trip????
>
> Is there such a thing as a standard North American 230 volt GFCI
> outlet? And if so would it also protect any 115 outlets downstream of
> it?
>
> Or GFCI the first outlet following the 230 volt so it protects both of
> the 115 volt ones? The 230 volt outlet then being non GFCI protected.
> Or blank it off?
>
> Same thing could occur with what here is called a 'split outlet' (can
> double the capacity and/or allow two heavier appliances, especially
> kitchens, plugged into both halves of same outlet) whereby the tab
> between upper and lower halves of a duplex 115 volt outlet is removed
> and opposite 115 volt legs wired to each half.
>
> BTW; As a separate topic; while we have several GFCI protected outside
> outlets, if necessary to extend power outside from a non GFCI outlet
> inside the house we used a GFCI duplex outlet that is of a type that
> does not provided downstream protection to other outlets and mounted
> it on end of a substantial extension.
>
> Comments welcome. TIA

buffalo ny: i'm not an electrician, but as you keep your left hand in
your pocket safely, then write a check to pay an electrician and hand
it to him with with your right hand, he will probably notice you are
overfeeding the very first described 15A device with its panel 20A
breaker and its 20 amp wire. so turn that off now. the rest needs a
closer look for further errors. remember also your city and country
electrical codes will ultimately determine the correct answer. just
because we've got the electricity working doesn't mean it will work
safely under load.
must read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Electrical_Code
and good basic stuff please read also:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/electrical-wiring/part1/


Posted by John Gilmer on May 15, 2008, 5:13 am


> buffalo ny: i'm not an electrician, but as you keep your left hand in
> your pocket safely, then write a check to pay an electrician and hand
> it to him with with your right hand, he will probably notice you are
> overfeeding the very first described 15A device with its panel 20A
> breaker and its 20 amp wire.

I've been told that there is a special exception for 15 amp outlets on a 20
amp circuit. So long as the wire gauge is #12 or larger, the wiring isn't
a problem.

You can get GFCIs in eiher a 15 or 20 Amp version. The 20 amp just cost a
$1 or 2 more but unless you have an machine with a 20 amp plug you just
don't need a 20 amp outlet.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Posted by Mikepier on May 15, 2008, 6:40 am
Why do you need GFI in the first place? Is it code if you are working
on a concrete floor in a garage?

Posted by bud-- on May 15, 2008, 11:13 am
Mikepier wrote:
> Why do you need GFI in the first place? Is it code if you are working
> on a concrete floor in a garage?

120V, 15 & 20A receptacles in a garage require GFCI protection. The 240V
one does not (but you may want to use a GFCI breaker for safety). For
purposes of shock, the concrete floor is a good ground.


The code allows 15A outlets on 20A circuits. This is very common with
120V receptacles. Not obvious to me that the intent was to include 240V
outlets, but I don't see any restriction.

--
bud--

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