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Home Repair - - If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Otherwise look here. 

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Subject Author Date
Auto repair scam Edwin Pawlowski 07-14-2006
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Posted by Larry Jaques on July 18, 2006, 3:37 pm
On 17 Jul 2006 21:40:24 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
tom_sawyer70@yahoo.com quickly quoth:

>
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> Buying new is a waste of money in many cases. If you're doing your own
>> pad replacement, grab a Chilton (or other manual) and learn how to do
>> the rest of the labor yourself. I've had my rotors and drums turned by
>> local shops for about $20 ($5 each in 2002) for decades now, since I
>> retired from wrenchin' with back problems.
>
>In my case, it didn't seem to make sense to have my rotors turned. New
>rotors for my "everyday" vehicle cost me ~$18each. Since I'm replacing
>the pads and already have the wheel off, it's just a few more steps to
>replace the rotors and I don't have to worry about paying for them to
>be turned and/or when they'll warp again.

Yeah, the temptation at $18/ea would be high.


>Your location may have something to do with it...I don't know any place
>around here that comes close to $20 to turn them without charging
>significantly more for pulling the tires and/or replacing the pads at

You misread me. I'm a retired mechanic; I don't take -anything- to a
shop if I can help it. I pull the rotors/drums and drop in at a local
brake shop where they're turned for $5/ea.


>the same time. I found out that I could replace my front pads and
>rotors for less than $60. I don't think I've ever walked out of a
>garage for less than that, regardless of how minor the maintenance was.
> Heck, the last time I had an inspection, they wanted $40 to replace
>the air filter. I did it for less than $10 and about 2 minutes worth
>of time when I realized what was involved.

My neighbor just went to the local Ford dealer to get his Bronco oil
changed. They replaced the air filter, too, and the total charge was
$44 and change. Ouch!


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Posted by zxcvbob on July 17, 2006, 1:09 am
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 17:04:35 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
>
>>>> snip<<
>>> Of course most brake jobs don't require turning the rotors or the drums,
>>> especially if the car has been driven reasonably and there is no deep
>>> scoring.
>> Not 100% true. Heat alone distorts the rotors and drums.
>
> Agreed. As an ex-mechanic, I know for a fact that most drums and
> rotors DO need resurfacing and truing. If you can live with a
> pulsating pedal and a harder pedal pressure for stopping, don't turn
> 'em. Who cares if it's less safe? ;)
>
>


If it wasn't warped (pulsing brake pedal) with the old pads, it probably
doesn't need turning. The new pads will wear the highest spots off the
ridges and the ridges will cut grooves in the new pads, and pretty soon
they will be mated perfectly. You won't have optimum braking during
this wear-in period, I think that's why the shops always wanna turn them
rather than it being a rip-off.

Turning the drums and rotors reduces the mass and increases the chance
that they *will* warp (or fade) someday during heavy braking because
they will get hotter faster.

Best regards,
Bob

Posted by Larry Jaques on July 17, 2006, 11:30 pm
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:09:11 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 17:04:35 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
>>
>>>>> snip<<
>>>> Of course most brake jobs don't require turning the rotors or the drums,
>>>> especially if the car has been driven reasonably and there is no deep
>>>> scoring.
>>> Not 100% true. Heat alone distorts the rotors and drums.
>>
>> Agreed. As an ex-mechanic, I know for a fact that most drums and
>> rotors DO need resurfacing and truing. If you can live with a
>> pulsating pedal and a harder pedal pressure for stopping, don't turn
>> 'em. Who cares if it's less safe? ;)
>
>If it wasn't warped (pulsing brake pedal) with the old pads, it probably
>doesn't need turning. The new pads will wear the highest spots off the
>ridges and the ridges will cut grooves in the new pads, and pretty soon
>they will be mated perfectly. You won't have optimum braking during
>this wear-in period, I think that's why the shops always wanna turn them
>rather than it being a rip-off.

most folks don't realize how bad their brakes were until the new,
trued drums/rotors were installed.


>Turning the drums and rotors reduces the mass and increases the chance
>that they *will* warp (or fade) someday during heavy braking because
>they will get hotter faster.

That's why there is a limit on how much "meat" they can shave off. It
varies with the application, but all have limits and the good shops
take off only as much as they need to for clean, trued surfaces.


--
Simplicity doesn't mean to live in misery and poverty. You have what you
need and you don't want what you don't need. --Charan Singh (1916-1990)

Posted by George E. Cawthon on July 17, 2006, 2:19 am
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 17:04:35 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
>
>>>> snip<<
>>> Of course most brake jobs don't require turning the rotors or the drums,
>>> especially if the car has been driven reasonably and there is no deep
>>> scoring.
>> Not 100% true. Heat alone distorts the rotors and drums.
>
> Agreed. As an ex-mechanic, I know for a fact that most drums and
> rotors DO need resurfacing and truing. If you can live with a
> pulsating pedal and a harder pedal pressure for stopping, don't turn
> 'em. Who cares if it's less safe? ;)
>
>

Yeah, I probably should not have used "most"
because "most" drivers are idiots and cause all
sorts of maintenance problems.

None the less, there are significant number of
pad replacements needed due to pad wear when the
brakes exhibit no pulsating pedal or need hard
pressure to stop. I think I've had only one
car/truck where I had a pulsating pedal and most
of my cars were purchased with over 50,000 miles
and needed one or more brake jobs before I got rid
of them.

Shops like to resurface rotors and often the scam
is "the rotors are too thin to be turned, or your
rotors are warped, so you need new rotors."

Posted by George E. Cawthon on July 17, 2006, 12:56 am
jerryl wrote:
>>> snip<<
>> Of course most brake jobs don't require turning the rotors or the drums,
>> especially if the car has been driven reasonably and there is no deep
>> scoring.
>
> Not 100% true. Heat alone distorts the rotors and drums.
>
>
Yeah, heat distorts rotors and drums, temporarily
unless you don't use them reasonably.
You in the rotor turning business?
If your brakes worked fine before your pads wore
down to the point of needing replacement, they
will work fine with new pads and no rotor turning.

Or maybe you think something magical happens and
makes the rotor suddenly warp when the car goes up
on the lift? Of course you can ruin new brakes in
50 miles, but then they won't be working correctly
will they?

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