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Bad water heater element, guests coming soon! Jazz 08-21-2006
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Posted by on August 21, 2006, 11:38 pm

>I am a computer guy, not a handy-man, so forgive the stupidity of my
>question...
>
>I have a Rheem 40 gallon water heater.
>240 volts, 4500 wattage, model number 81V40D C ...
>
>My dad, a water heater inspector for TVA, tells me the top element is
>probably bad (We have some hot water, but runs out pretty fast now... i
>trust his judgement since he has done it for over 25 years).
>
I bet it is the bottom one, sorry dad. If the top one is bad you won't
get any hot water. That is the one that comes on first. That is the
"quick recovery element" to put some hot water in the top of the tank
right now. When the top thermostat is made it switches to the bottom
and heats up the rest of the tank. If top one is bad it won't make any
hot water to make the stat and flip to the bottom so you are stuck.

A quick look under the bottom cover will tell you what kind of element
it is. If it has 4 bolts around the wiring terminals (3" or so
pattern) it is bolt in. A screw in only has a big hex nut type end.

BE SURE TO TRIP THE BREAKER BEFORE YOU POKE AROUND IN THERE!

Also be sure water is running free out of a hot water faucet before
you turn it back on after replacing the element Let it run a minute or
more to be sure there isn't an air pocket in the top or you WILL have
a bad top element.

Special 468x60
Posted by Al Bundy on August 22, 2006, 12:14 am
4ax.com:

>
>>I am a computer guy, not a handy-man, so forgive the stupidity of my
>>question...
>>
>>I have a Rheem 40 gallon water heater.
>>240 volts, 4500 wattage, model number 81V40D C ...
>>
>>My dad, a water heater inspector for TVA, tells me the top element is
>>probably bad (We have some hot water, but runs out pretty fast now... i
>>trust his judgement since he has done it for over 25 years).
>>
> I bet it is the bottom one, sorry dad.

I agree.

> If the top one is bad you won't
> get any hot water.

I disagree...if the bottom one still works.

> That is the one that comes on first.

Disagree again. Bottom one comes on first because that's where the
coldest stored water is. Also, the cold water in dip tube goes to the
bottom of the tank.

> That is the
> "quick recovery element" to put some hot water in the top of the tank
> right now. When the top thermostat is made it switches to the bottom
> and heats up the rest of the tank.

Disagree. When the top thermostat says turn on, it shuts the bottom one,
which should already be on, off. When the top is up to temp, the bottom
will go back on to bring the lower half of the tank up to temp.

> If top one is bad it won't make any
> hot water to make the stat and flip to the bottom so you are stuck.

Ughhhh! Incorrect.

>
> A quick look under the bottom cover will tell you what kind of element
> it is. If it has 4 bolts around the wiring terminals (3" or so
> pattern) it is bolt in. A screw in only has a big hex nut type end.
>
> BE SURE TO TRIP THE BREAKER BEFORE YOU POKE AROUND IN THERE!
>
> Also be sure water is running free out of a hot water faucet before
> you turn it back on after replacing the element.

Absolutely key advice!

> Let it run a minute or
> more to be sure there isn't an air pocket in the top or you WILL have
> a bad top element.



Posted by tech on August 22, 2006, 12:28 am
Mr Al is correct, I didn't want to take the time to type it all out. :-)


> 4ax.com:
>
> >
> >>I am a computer guy, not a handy-man, so forgive the stupidity of my
> >>question...
> >>
> >>I have a Rheem 40 gallon water heater.
> >>240 volts, 4500 wattage, model number 81V40D C ...
> >>
> >>My dad, a water heater inspector for TVA, tells me the top element is
> >>probably bad (We have some hot water, but runs out pretty fast now... i
> >>trust his judgement since he has done it for over 25 years).
> >>
> > I bet it is the bottom one, sorry dad.
>
> I agree.
>
> > If the top one is bad you won't
> > get any hot water.
>
> I disagree...if the bottom one still works.
>
> > That is the one that comes on first.
>
> Disagree again. Bottom one comes on first because that's where the
> coldest stored water is. Also, the cold water in dip tube goes to the
> bottom of the tank.
>
> > That is the
> > "quick recovery element" to put some hot water in the top of the tank
> > right now. When the top thermostat is made it switches to the bottom
> > and heats up the rest of the tank.
>
> Disagree. When the top thermostat says turn on, it shuts the bottom one,
> which should already be on, off. When the top is up to temp, the bottom
> will go back on to bring the lower half of the tank up to temp.
>
> > If top one is bad it won't make any
> > hot water to make the stat and flip to the bottom so you are stuck.
>
> Ughhhh! Incorrect.
>
> >
> > A quick look under the bottom cover will tell you what kind of element
> > it is. If it has 4 bolts around the wiring terminals (3" or so
> > pattern) it is bolt in. A screw in only has a big hex nut type end.
> >
> > BE SURE TO TRIP THE BREAKER BEFORE YOU POKE AROUND IN THERE!
> >
> > Also be sure water is running free out of a hot water faucet before
> > you turn it back on after replacing the element.
>
> Absolutely key advice!
>
> > Let it run a minute or
> > more to be sure there isn't an air pocket in the top or you WILL have
> > a bad top element.
>
>



Posted by Al Bundy on August 22, 2006, 1:02 am

> 4ax.com:
>
>>
>>>I am a computer guy, not a handy-man, so forgive the stupidity of my
>>>question...
>>>
>>>I have a Rheem 40 gallon water heater.
>>>240 volts, 4500 wattage, model number 81V40D C ...
>>>
>>>My dad, a water heater inspector for TVA, tells me the top element is
>>>probably bad (We have some hot water, but runs out pretty fast now...
>>>i trust his judgement since he has done it for over 25 years).
>>>
>> I bet it is the bottom one, sorry dad.
>
> I agree.
>
>> If the top one is bad you won't
>> get any hot water.
>
> I disagree...if the bottom one still works.

Hmmm. Now I am rethinking this (after posting of course!). If the top
one was bad the thermostat would apply the power to it but it never goes
on. It would always be on never switching to the lower. I eat my original
words.

>
>> That is the one that comes on first.
>
> Disagree again. Bottom one comes on first because that's where the
> coldest stored water is. Also, the cold water in dip tube goes to the
> bottom of the tank.
>
>> That is the
>> "quick recovery element" to put some hot water in the top of the tank
>> right now. When the top thermostat is made it switches to the bottom
>> and heats up the rest of the tank.
>
> Disagree. When the top thermostat says turn on, it shuts the bottom
> one, which should already be on, off. When the top is up to temp, the
> bottom will go back on to bring the lower half of the tank up to temp.
>
>> If top one is bad it won't make any
>> hot water to make the stat and flip to the bottom so you are stuck.
>
> Ughhhh! Incorrect.

See eat my words statement above.

>
>>
>> A quick look under the bottom cover will tell you what kind of
>> element it is. If it has 4 bolts around the wiring terminals (3" or
>> so pattern) it is bolt in. A screw in only has a big hex nut type
>> end.
>>
>> BE SURE TO TRIP THE BREAKER BEFORE YOU POKE AROUND IN THERE!
>>
>> Also be sure water is running free out of a hot water faucet before
>> you turn it back on after replacing the element.
>
> Absolutely key advice!
>
>> Let it run a minute or
>> more to be sure there isn't an air pocket in the top or you WILL have
>> a bad top element.
>
>



Posted by Al Bundy on August 22, 2006, 12:47 am
Assumptions: Two elements, an upper and a lower. Temp setting the same on
both. Same thermostats providing the same upper and lower limit swing.

Diagram: http://home.howstuffworks.com/water-heater1.htm



State: No water being drawn. Tank just sitting.

Colder (denser) water will be at the bottom of the tank. Heat rises. When
the temp at the bottom of the tank goes below the lower thermostat limit,
the lower element goes on until the water at the bottom is up to temp.
Element goes off. Top element never comes on.

State: Hot water being drawn lightly/intermittently.

Hot water being drawn from the top of the tank. Cold water being fed into
bottom of tank from inlet/dip tube. When the temp at the bottom of the
tank goes below the lower thermostat limit, the lower element goes on.
Providing the demand is not high, the upper element will not go on
because the low limit of the upper thermostat is not reached. Bottom
water reaches temp and thermostat shuts off. Top element never comes on.

State: Hot water being drawn heavily like shower or hot water wash.

Hot water being drawn from top of tank. Cold water inlet being fed to
bottom of tank via dip tube. Bottom element goes on. Demand is faster
than lower element can heat. Lower limit of upper thermostat is reached.
Upper element goes on. Lower element turns off. Upper element stays on
until the water in upper tank is up to temp. Upper element goes off.
Lower element goes back on until water at bottom of tank is up to temp.


I'm no plumber, heating guy or any of that. This is just my
understanding.

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