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Buderus vs. Weil-McLain boiler, and expansion tank question mapleman 07-31-2007
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Posted by mapleman on July 31, 2007, 9:51 am
I have a 50 year old, 1100 sq foot ranch house, with about 70 feet of
baseboard hot water radiators. Our boiler has failed and needs to be
replaced. Glad that I can deal with this in the summer and not have
an emergency situation in winter. I live in SE Wisconsin.

I have several quotes, and they all focus around two brands of
boilers: Weil-McLain and Buderus.

I am getting the impression that the Buderus is better made than the W-
M, though maybe I'm being led to that impression (i.e. maybe the
Buderus dealers are better sales people than the Weil-McLain dealers).
My best quote for a Buderus is about $1000(US) higher than the best
quote for a W-M, for a comparable (cast iron with similar AFUE)
boiler.

Is it worth it to spend the extra money for the Buderus, or is the W-M
a better value for the money?

Also, we currently have an expansion tank with no bladder. I have been
told that tanks with bladders tend to have bladder failure after ten
or twelve years and then need to be replaced, whereas tanks with no
bladders last for decades. Am I likely going to be OK staying with
the tank that I have, which probably was installed when the house was
built?

Thanks for your interest and I look forward to learning more about
these two brands of boilers.

Mapleman


Posted by Pete C. on July 31, 2007, 10:31 am
mapleman wrote:
>
> I have a 50 year old, 1100 sq foot ranch house, with about 70 feet of
> baseboard hot water radiators. Our boiler has failed and needs to be
> replaced. Glad that I can deal with this in the summer and not have
> an emergency situation in winter. I live in SE Wisconsin.
>
> I have several quotes, and they all focus around two brands of
> boilers: Weil-McLain and Buderus.
>
> I am getting the impression that the Buderus is better made than the W-
> M, though maybe I'm being led to that impression (i.e. maybe the
> Buderus dealers are better sales people than the Weil-McLain dealers).
> My best quote for a Buderus is about $1000(US) higher than the best
> quote for a W-M, for a comparable (cast iron with similar AFUE)
> boiler.
>
> Is it worth it to spend the extra money for the Buderus, or is the W-M
> a better value for the money?
>
> Also, we currently have an expansion tank with no bladder. I have been
> told that tanks with bladders tend to have bladder failure after ten
> or twelve years and then need to be replaced, whereas tanks with no
> bladders last for decades. Am I likely going to be OK staying with
> the tank that I have, which probably was installed when the house was
> built?
>
> Thanks for your interest and I look forward to learning more about
> these two brands of boilers.
>
> Mapleman

From what I've seen the Buderus units are higher end than the
Weil-McLain. In general I'd say the better WM units should be more than
adequate for your application.

As for the expansion tank, the bladder type may fail and need to be
replaced every decade or so, where the non bladder type need to be
drained at least every year since the air charge gradually gets
absorbed.

If you have the boiler serviced annually and they remember to drain the
expansion tank each time it should be fine. Since any new installation
generally gets a bladder type tank I expect you'd likely have times
where you get the new guy for service who doesn't know about servicing
the non bladder tank and resulting issues that winter.

Pete C.

Posted by mapleman on July 31, 2007, 1:01 pm
> mapleman wrote:
>
> > I have a 50 year old, 1100 sq foot ranch house, with about 70 feet of
> > baseboard hot water radiators. Our boiler has failed and needs to be
> > replaced. Glad that I can deal with this in the summer and not have
> > an emergency situation in winter. I live in SE Wisconsin.
>
> > I have several quotes, and they all focus around two brands of
> > boilers: Weil-McLain and Buderus.
>
> > I am getting the impression that the Buderus is better made than the W-
> > M, though maybe I'm being led to that impression (i.e. maybe the
> > Buderus dealers are better sales people than the Weil-McLain dealers).
> > My best quote for a Buderus is about $1000(US) higher than the best
> > quote for a W-M, for a comparable (cast iron with similar AFUE)
> > boiler.
>
> > Is it worth it to spend the extra money for the Buderus, or is the W-M
> > a better value for the money?
>
> > Also, we currently have an expansion tank with no bladder. I have been
> > told that tanks with bladders tend to have bladder failure after ten
> > or twelve years and then need to be replaced, whereas tanks with no
> > bladders last for decades. Am I likely going to be OK staying with
> > the tank that I have, which probably was installed when the house was
> > built?
>
> > Thanks for your interest and I look forward to learning more about
> > these two brands of boilers.
>
> > Mapleman
>
> From what I've seen the Buderus units are higher end than the
> Weil-McLain. In general I'd say the better WM units should be more than
> adequate for your application.
>
> As for the expansion tank, the bladder type may fail and need to be
> replaced every decade or so, where the non bladder type need to be
> drained at least every year since the air charge gradually gets
> absorbed.
>
>

"In general I'd say the better WM units should be more than
adequate for your application"

Is there a way to tell the better WM units from those that are "less
than" better? The units we are considering are natural venting. The
WM is a model CGa-3. The higher efficiency forced venting cost a
couple grand more, and we only spend about $700/year on heat. Savings
would amount to $70 to $80 per year at current gas prices so a high
efficiency unit would only be worthwhile if gas prices increased by a
HUGE amount.

Regarding water heating, either the Buderus or WM can accomodate it
heating DHW. We currently have a ten year old Sears hot water heater,
naturally vented up the same chimney as the boiler. I figure when it
starts to give us problems I will consider at that point whether to
buy a new water heater, or put in a tank that is heated by the boiler.

Thanks for the feedback, guys. My instinct was that the WM was the
better way to go unless there was a compelling reason to go with the
Buderus. Though I guess I could always approach the Buderus dealer
and see if he could come down on his price.


Posted by Paul Flansburg on July 31, 2007, 11:39 am
> I have a 50 year old, 1100 sq foot ranch house, with about 70 feet of
> baseboard hot water radiators. Our boiler has failed and needs to be
> replaced. Glad that I can deal with this in the summer and not have
> an emergency situation in winter. I live in SE Wisconsin.
>
> I have several quotes, and they all focus around two brands of
> boilers: Weil-McLain and Buderus.
>
> I am getting the impression that the Buderus is better made than the W-
> M, though maybe I'm being led to that impression (i.e. maybe the
> Buderus dealers are better sales people than the Weil-McLain dealers).
> My best quote for a Buderus is about $1000(US) higher than the best
> quote for a W-M, for a comparable (cast iron with similar AFUE)
> boiler.
>
> Is it worth it to spend the extra money for the Buderus, or is the W-M
> a better value for the money?
>
> Also, we currently have an expansion tank with no bladder. I have been
> told that tanks with bladders tend to have bladder failure after ten
> or twelve years and then need to be replaced, whereas tanks with no
> bladders last for decades. Am I likely going to be OK staying with
> the tank that I have, which probably was installed when the house was
> built?
>
> Thanks for your interest and I look forward to learning more about
> these two brands of boilers.
>
> Mapleman

If you plan to live and die in the house either boiler will do. Save
the money and go with the WM. ALso while your at it, take a look at
how you make hot water. If you have an indirect stay with it. Tkae
the extra savings by going with the WM and put this into a good
indirect hot water tank. If you currently have a tankless setup, then
I would seriously look into a boiler with an indirect setup.

As for the issue with the expansion tank, take the one with the
bladder. If they fail, which I have never seen, they are very
inexpesnsive and a DIYer can change it. To determine if the bladder
has failed, feel the bottom of the tank. It should be cool when
working and HOT when failed. To change it out, take the pressure out
of the system and unscrew. Then screw in the new one. The tanks come
precharged so you don't have to screw around with them.

-paul


Posted by Pete C. on July 31, 2007, 11:47 am
Paul Flansburg wrote:
>
> > I have a 50 year old, 1100 sq foot ranch house, with about 70 feet of
> > baseboard hot water radiators. Our boiler has failed and needs to be
> > replaced. Glad that I can deal with this in the summer and not have
> > an emergency situation in winter. I live in SE Wisconsin.
> >
> > I have several quotes, and they all focus around two brands of
> > boilers: Weil-McLain and Buderus.
> >
> > I am getting the impression that the Buderus is better made than the W-
> > M, though maybe I'm being led to that impression (i.e. maybe the
> > Buderus dealers are better sales people than the Weil-McLain dealers).
> > My best quote for a Buderus is about $1000(US) higher than the best
> > quote for a W-M, for a comparable (cast iron with similar AFUE)
> > boiler.
> >
> > Is it worth it to spend the extra money for the Buderus, or is the W-M
> > a better value for the money?
> >
> > Also, we currently have an expansion tank with no bladder. I have been
> > told that tanks with bladders tend to have bladder failure after ten
> > or twelve years and then need to be replaced, whereas tanks with no
> > bladders last for decades. Am I likely going to be OK staying with
> > the tank that I have, which probably was installed when the house was
> > built?
> >
> > Thanks for your interest and I look forward to learning more about
> > these two brands of boilers.
> >
> > Mapleman
>
> If you plan to live and die in the house either boiler will do. Save
> the money and go with the WM. ALso while your at it, take a look at
> how you make hot water. If you have an indirect stay with it. Tkae
> the extra savings by going with the WM and put this into a good
> indirect hot water tank. If you currently have a tankless setup, then
> I would seriously look into a boiler with an indirect setup.

I wouldn't consider the extra expense and floor space of an indirect
fired HW setup vs. tankless, unless I actually had a problem with
insufficient HW from a current tankless setup. If you're running out of
hot water during showers, look at an indirect, otherwise save the money
and put to more productive use.

Pete C.

>
> As for the issue with the expansion tank, take the one with the
> bladder. If they fail, which I have never seen, they are very
> inexpesnsive and a DIYer can change it. To determine if the bladder
> has failed, feel the bottom of the tank. It should be cool when
> working and HOT when failed. To change it out, take the pressure out
> of the system and unscrew. Then screw in the new one. The tanks come
> precharged so you don't have to screw around with them.
>
> -paul

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