Bulding an outdoor basement stairway entrance

Posted by fftt on October 11, 2009, 5:45 pm

> How often do you need to access this heater room? =A0 How about an
> adjacent "well" next to the existing one & drop in a prefab spiral
> stair?
> cheers
> Bob
> --------------------
> Thanks for the suggestion. =A0The heater room has 3 gas-fired baseboard h=

eater

> units and 3 gas hot wanter heater units. =A0It's a 3-unit apartment build=

ing.

> I have considered various other designs and layouts but, at least for now=

> I'm trying to find out more about what the design I have in mind would
> involve.

Before you move forward on any design (even getting guys out to bid)
you need to determine what you this change to accomplish.

Getting construction guys out to the site with nothing more in mind
than picking their brains and then doing the work yourself is why
construction guys (typically) give quick & dirty estimates (or are
unwilling to come out at all).

Of course with the economy slow it should be easy to get them to come
out but in reality it will probably not result in work for any of
them :(

I suggested the "extra stair well" because it requires less demo,
results in less disruption to the existing stairwell & the same new
construction.

If the new stair way is not just human access but machines as
well.....then oyu need to stick with the stairway modification.

cheers
Bob

Posted by EXT on October 10, 2009, 5:24 pm

> I have a property that has an outdoor concrete stairway that leads to
> a basement entrance. The steps run down below grade along the back
> wall of the basement to a landing, and then by turning right one can
> enter the basement through a door in the back wall. The landing is
> about 18 inches above the basement floor level, so after entering the
> basement door, there are 2 or 3 steps down to the basement floor.
> What I would like to do is add a few more steps down along the back
> basement wall, beginning at the end of the first landing (where the
> existing door is), and then create a second landing that is about 18
> inches lower than the first landing. Where the new landing will be,
> I would like to add a second entrance to the basement.
> The present concrete steps and landing are bordered by a concrete
> block wall -- one along the side of the steps, and one at the end of
> the existing landing at the bottom of the steps. The new design will
> require knocking out the concrete block wall at the end of the
> existing landing to continue the new run of steps down to the new
> (second) entrance to the basement.
> The existing landing has a floor drain that I think goes to a French
> drain type of setup under the basement floor. It doesn't go to any
> sewer line. What I think I would like to do is have the existing
> floor drain and the new floor drain for the new landing go to a
> similar French drain type of setup under the basement floor which
> also can drain into a new sump pump pit that I will have installed.
> If it's a straight-forward job, I may just go ahead and do it myself
> with the help of a friend. Or, I could get some estimates from
> concrete contractors and see what they say needs to be done. If the
> concrete contractors know what they are doing and it doesn't cost too
> much, I may just have them do it -- but I have a hunch that they will
> want a lot more than I would want to pay when I could do it myself
> for a lot less.
> The part of all of this that I don't know about is how the new
> landing and new added concrete block surrounding and retaining wall
> should be built. In other words, is there a certain type or amount
> of footing that needs to go under the new section of retaining wall? And,
> is there anything special that needs to go under the new
> landing, other than a stone base underneath? Is rebar required
> anywhere?

You will need to ensure that the existing footings of the house, or change
the footings of the house so that they are below the frost line in your
area, you will find that this also applies horizontally so that when frost
enters the stairway wall it will freeze the ground in all directions, left,
right and down. For example if you have a 4 foot frost level you will need
the house and any permanent stair walls to have footings 4 feet below the
bottom landing and for 4 feet on each side of the stairway opening, as well
as below the angled portion of the decending stairs of they run beside the
house foundation wall.

Posted by aemeijers on October 10, 2009, 5:32 pm

EXT wrote:

>> I have a property that has an outdoor concrete stairway that leads to
>> a basement entrance. The steps run down below grade along the back
>> wall of the basement to a landing, and then by turning right one can
>> enter the basement through a door in the back wall. The landing is
>> about 18 inches above the basement floor level, so after entering the
>> basement door, there are 2 or 3 steps down to the basement floor.
>> What I would like to do is add a few more steps down along the back
>> basement wall, beginning at the end of the first landing (where the
>> existing door is), and then create a second landing that is about 18
>> inches lower than the first landing. Where the new landing will be,
>> I would like to add a second entrance to the basement.
>> The present concrete steps and landing are bordered by a concrete
>> block wall -- one along the side of the steps, and one at the end of
>> the existing landing at the bottom of the steps. The new design will
>> require knocking out the concrete block wall at the end of the
>> existing landing to continue the new run of steps down to the new
>> (second) entrance to the basement.
>> The existing landing has a floor drain that I think goes to a French
>> drain type of setup under the basement floor. It doesn't go to any
>> sewer line. What I think I would like to do is have the existing
>> floor drain and the new floor drain for the new landing go to a
>> similar French drain type of setup under the basement floor which
>> also can drain into a new sump pump pit that I will have installed.
>> If it's a straight-forward job, I may just go ahead and do it myself
>> with the help of a friend. Or, I could get some estimates from
>> concrete contractors and see what they say needs to be done. If the
>> concrete contractors know what they are doing and it doesn't cost too
>> much, I may just have them do it -- but I have a hunch that they will
>> want a lot more than I would want to pay when I could do it myself
>> for a lot less.
>> The part of all of this that I don't know about is how the new
>> landing and new added concrete block surrounding and retaining wall
>> should be built. In other words, is there a certain type or amount
>> of footing that needs to go under the new section of retaining wall?
>> And, is there anything special that needs to go under the new
>> landing, other than a stone base underneath? Is rebar required
>> anywhere?

>
> You will need to ensure that the existing footings of the house, or
> change the footings of the house so that they are below the frost line
> in your area, you will find that this also applies horizontally so that
> when frost enters the stairway wall it will freeze the ground in all
> directions, left, right and down. For example if you have a 4 foot frost
> level you will need the house and any permanent stair walls to have
> footings 4 feet below the bottom landing and for 4 feet on each side of
> the stairway opening, as well as below the angled portion of the
> decending stairs of they run beside the house foundation wall.

So how do they install all the precast outside basement stairwells I see
sitting at the concrete plant on the way to work every morning? Or do
they consider those a window well, since they aren't really attached to
the house?

--
aem sends, genuinely curious....

Posted by JayTKR on October 10, 2009, 8:12 pm

> EXT wrote:

>> You will need to ensure that the existing footings of the house, or
>> change the footings of the house so that they are below the frost line in
>> your area, you will find that this also applies horizontally so that when
>> frost enters the stairway wall it will freeze the ground in all
>> directions, left, right and down. For example if you have a 4 foot frost
>> level you will need the house and any permanent stair walls to have
>> footings 4 feet below the bottom landing and for 4 feet on each side of
>> the stairway opening, as well as below the angled portion of the
>> decending stairs of they run beside the house foundation wall.

> So how do they install all the precast outside basement stairwells I see
> sitting at the concrete plant on the way to work every morning? Or do they
> consider those a window well, since they aren't really attached to the
> house?

Interesting. I hadn't thought or heard about precast basement stairs. I
just did a Google search and found these links:

http://video.bobvila.com/m/21320387/installing-pre-cast-concrete-basement-stairs-and-a-bulkhead.htm

http://www.careyprecast.com/permentry.htm

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Home-Improvement-General-688/cellar-egress.htm

Although all of these show typical "Bilco"-style basement entrance steps,
and not the kind of stairways that I want that run parallel to the wall, I
didn't see anything on any of them calling for footings, frost line issues,
etc.

Posted by JayTKR on October 10, 2009, 8:19 pm

Oops. JayTKR = Beta-42. I posted this from a different computer which has
my JayTKR username set up instead of my Beta-42 username.

>> EXT wrote:

>>> You will need to ensure that the existing footings of the house, or
>>> change the footings of the house so that they are below the frost line
>>> in your area, you will find that this also applies horizontally so that
>>> when frost enters the stairway wall it will freeze the ground in all
>>> directions, left, right and down. For example if you have a 4 foot frost
>>> level you will need the house and any permanent stair walls to have
>>> footings 4 feet below the bottom landing and for 4 feet on each side of
>>> the stairway opening, as well as below the angled portion of the
>>> decending stairs of they run beside the house foundation wall.

>> So how do they install all the precast outside basement stairwells I see
>> sitting at the concrete plant on the way to work every morning? Or do
>> they consider those a window well, since they aren't really attached to
>> the house?

> Interesting. I hadn't thought or heard about precast basement stairs. I
> just did a Google search and found these links:
>

http://video.bobvila.com/m/21320387/installing-pre-cast-concrete-basement-stairs-and-a-bulkhead.htm

> http://www.careyprecast.com/permentry.htm
> http://en.allexperts.com/q/Home-Improvement-General-688/cellar-egress.htm
> Although all of these show typical "Bilco"-style basement entrance steps,
> and not the kind of stairways that I want that run parallel to the wall, I
> didn't see anything on any of them calling for footings, frost line
> issues, etc.
>

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Bulding an outdoor basement stairway entrance - Page 3