CLEAR hardwood finishes? -- moisture cure, etc.

Posted by JayB on November 6, 2009, 2:10 pm

jamesgangnc wrote:

>> I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an
>> apartment that I will be renting out.

> You need to use water based if you wish to avoid yellowing. Most
> people never really notice the yellowing though and oil based coating
> have been used for a really long time.

Thanks. It's not really the slight yellowing that I am concerned about.
It's the way it really darkens the grain of the unfinished hardwood --
almost like a stain -- that is what I am trying to avoid.

Posted by norminn@earthlink.net on November 6, 2009, 12:59 pm

JayB wrote:

> I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an apartment
> that I will be renting out.
>
> What I want is a truly *CLEAR* finish to put down on the new unfinished
> flooring.
>
> I have extra flooring that I have set up so I can test various finishes. I
> have already tested a number of stains and, if I have to, I will go with one
> of those. But, what I really want is to be able to put a completely clear
> finish over the new unfinished hardwood flooring. I like the way it looks
> now and I would like to be able to keep that look and coloration. All of
> the so-called "clear" polyurethane finishes I have tried so far are not
> really clear. They are amber color, and they also stain and darken the wood
> grain.
>
> Here are my two questions:
>
> 1) I am interested in clear Moisture Cure Urethane (one brand is made by
> Garco) -- but I can't find anywhere to buy it. It is supposed to be truly
> clear. I know it is super volatile and maybe that's why it is not easily
> available. I can apparently buy it online, but then I have to wait 4 to 14
> days for it to arrive. Does anyone know where I can go in person and buy
> this stuff? I am in New Jersey near Philadelphia, PA.
>
> 2) I haven't tested out water-based polyurethane products yet. I get the
> impression that they can be more clear than oil-based polyurethane. MinWax
> sells a clear water-based base coat and a clear water-based polyurethane
> that goes over the base coat. The clear base coat is supposed to seal the
> tannins (or something like that) in the wood so it doesn't darken, and then
> hopefully the top coat won't darken the wood when it is applied.

I don't know of a clear coat that doesn't darken wood to some extend.
Of course, a very light wood like maple will darken the least. I've
refinished lots of wood and have not used sealers (only stain and
varnish). What kind of wood is it? Pine and oak yellow considerably
exposed to sunlight, regardless of whether water or solvent based finish.

Sealing in the tannins applies to color that bleeds through and stains a
painted finish ... cedar, redwood have more tannins.

>
> Are water-based polyurethane finishes okay for hardwood floors? Are they
> durable enough compared to oil-based polyurethanes? Are there any special
> cleaning requirements or instructions for water-based finishes that are
> different than for oil-based polyurethane finishes?
>
> Can I later cover a water-based polyurethane finish with an oil-based
> polyurethane finish? I think the answer to that one is "no", but I thought
> I would ask anyway.
>
>

The main thing about oil and water is that they do not mix when liquid.
An old finish, if properly prepared, can generally be covered with the
other type as long as instructions are followed for the product.

Posted by JayB on November 6, 2009, 2:15 pm

norminn@earthlink.net wrote:

> JayB wrote:

>> I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an
>> apartment that I will be renting out.

> I don't know of a clear coat that doesn't darken wood to some extend.
> Of course, a very light wood like maple will darken the least. I've
> refinished lots of wood and have not used sealers (only stain and
> varnish). What kind of wood is it? Pine and oak yellow considerably
> exposed to sunlight, regardless of whether water or solvent based
> finish.

The wood is unfinished, #2 red oak.

> Sealing in the tannins applies to color that bleeds through and
> stains a painted finish ... cedar, redwood have more tannins.

Yep, it's red oak.

> The main thing about oil and water is that they do not mix when
> liquid. An old finish, if properly prepared, can generally be
> covered with the other type as long as instructions are followed for
> the product.

That's interesting. "Maybe" that means that I can do the job with clear
water-based base coat and top coats for now. And then, sometime later on
maybe cover that with clear oil-based polyurethane for more durability.

Posted by jamesgangnc on November 6, 2009, 2:29 pm

> norm...@earthlink.net wrote:

> > JayB wrote:

> >> I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an
> >> apartment that I will be renting out.

> > I don't know of a clear coat that doesn't darken wood to some extend.
> > Of course, a very light wood like maple will darken the least. =A0I've
> > refinished lots of wood and have not used sealers (only stain and
> > varnish). =A0What kind of wood is it? =A0Pine and oak yellow considerab=

> > exposed to sunlight, regardless of whether water or solvent based
> > finish.

> The wood is unfinished, #2 red oak.

> > Sealing in the tannins applies to color that bleeds through and
> > stains a painted finish ... cedar, redwood have more tannins.

> Yep, it's red oak.

> > The main thing about oil and water is that they do not mix when
> > =A0liquid. An old finish, if properly prepared, can generally be
> > covered with the other type as long as instructions are followed for
> > the product.

> That's interesting. =A0"Maybe" that means that I can do the job with clea=

> water-based base coat and top coats for now. =A0And then, sometime later =

> maybe cover that with clear oil-based polyurethane for more durability.

I'm thinking any red oak is going to darken a good bit when covered
with oil or water based clears. You should choose the wood based on
the finished appearance you are seeking.

Perhaps you can try white washing it a bit before sealing. I have
some cabinets that are oak and have that finish. Basically just wipe
down with a cloth and some white paint. Wipe as much paint off as you
can. What's left will be in the grain. Let dry. When covered with
clear coat the results are pretty light.

Posted by ransley on November 6, 2009, 2:27 pm

> I now have a new unfinished red oak hardwood floor installed in an apartm=

ent

> that I will be renting out.
> What I want is a truly *CLEAR* finish to put down on the new unfinished
> flooring.
> I have extra flooring that I have set up so I can test various finishes. =

=A0I

> have already tested a number of stains and, if I have to, I will go with =

one

> of those. =A0But, what I really want is to be able to put a completely cl=

ear

> finish over the new unfinished hardwood flooring. =A0I like the way it lo=

oks

> now and I would like to be able to keep that look and coloration. =A0All =

> the so-called "clear" polyurethane finishes I have tried so far are not
> really clear. =A0They are amber color, and they also stain and darken the=

wood

> grain.
> Here are my two questions:
> 1) I am interested in clear Moisture Cure Urethane (one brand is made by
> Garco) -- but I can't find anywhere to buy it. =A0It is supposed to be tr=

uly

> clear. =A0I know it is super volatile and maybe that's why it is not easi=

> available. =A0I can apparently buy it online, but then I have to wait 4 t=

o 14

> days for it to arrive. =A0Does anyone know where I can go in person and b=

> this stuff? =A0I am in New Jersey near Philadelphia, PA.
> 2) I haven't tested out water-based polyurethane products yet. =A0I get t=

> impression that they can be more clear than oil-based polyurethane. =A0Mi=

nWax

> sells a clear water-based base coat and a clear water-based polyurethane
> that goes over the base coat. =A0The clear base coat is supposed to seal =

the

> tannins (or something like that) in the wood so it doesn't darken, and th=

> hopefully the top coat won't darken the wood when it is applied.
> Are water-based polyurethane finishes okay for hardwood floors? =A0Are th=

> durable enough compared to oil-based polyurethanes? =A0Are there any spec=

ial

> cleaning requirements or instructions for water-based finishes that are
> different than for oil-based polyurethane finishes?
> Can I later cover a water-based polyurethane finish with an oil-based
> polyurethane finish? =A0I think the answer to that one is "no", but I tho=

ught

> I would ask anyway.

You want durability its a rental that will be abused, not your living
room. Gloss is clearest and most durable , what makes a lower sheen
makes finishes softer and cloudy. Water base is not as durable from
what I have been told but has no color and doesnt amber like oil. dont
bother staining you are making more work for yourself and oil poly
ambers nicely. A few coats of gloss oil followed by a finish coat of
satin looks great. With a rental more coats is better I try to get
3-4. If you stain then recoating in a few years if there is damage
might mean sanding to wood, with no stain recoating is much easier
when there is damage

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CLEAR hardwood finishes? -- moisture cure, etc. - Page 2