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Continuous copper wire to earth ground

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Continuous copper wire to earth ground Fpbear II 01-13-2007
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Posted by zxcvbob on January 13, 2007, 1:34 am


gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> One continuous conductor, unless spliced with an irreversible connections
>> such as an exothermic weld (solder is not good enough). Do you have access
>> to a good torch? I would use a split bolt connector and then after
>> tightening it braze shut it with 40% silver solder.
>
> Exothermic welding is a chemical weld, not brazing.
> They refer to a product like CadWeld which is a copper laden thermite
> type powder. You put a mold around the joint, pour it full of this
> powder and light it. When the fire goes out you have a solid mass of
> copper around the joint.
> If he can get to the first rod with the copper he has he can jumper to
> the second rod.



I understand that; a thermite weld. I think brazing (with silver) a copper
or bronze split bolt connector so it cannot be loosened is a reasonable
approximation.

Copper is extraordinarily hard to weld.

Bob

PexSupply Full Banner
Posted by Fpbear II on January 13, 2007, 1:09 am


Thank you Bob, I'll braze the split bolt connector. I have a torch that I
used years ago to fix a copper water pipe. I don't remember how to solder
with it but I think I can find some crash course on the net. Still a bit
curious how this affects the physical properties of the electricity running
through the wire.



> One continuous conductor, unless spliced with an irreversible connections
> such as an exothermic weld (solder is not good enough). Do you have
> access to a good torch? I would use a split bolt connector and then after
> tightening it braze shut it with 40% silver solder. Solid #6 wire should
> be enough; no need to use #4 unless the wire is subject to being damaged
> by a lawn mower or something.
>
> Bob



Posted by volts500 on January 13, 2007, 11:16 am


Fpbear II wrote:
> Thank you Bob, I'll braze the split bolt connector. I have a torch that I
> used years ago to fix a copper water pipe. I don't remember how to solder
> with it but I think I can find some crash course on the net. Still a bit
> curious how this affects the physical properties of the electricity running
> through the wire.

Please don't do that. No offense, but you'll probably just make a mess
of it. Even if you can make a decent braze, brazing is not accepted by
NEC. Here is an acceptable ground clamp, readily available at Home
Depot:
http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL-EZ/products.nsf/ItemMasterLookup/p87-812?OpenDocument

Usually referred to an "acorn nut," the one in the link is for 1/2"
ground rods. They are also available for 5/8" rods. It helps to slide
the acorn nut(s) onto the the ground rod _before_ driving it, if using
a sledge hammer, as the head tends to mushroom, making it a PITA to
install the acorn nut after the fact.

Pete C and gfretwell had some good suggestions. If I were doing it, I
would drive the first ground rod as close to the electric service as
possible, preferably 18" away from the house so it is at or outside of
the roof drip line. Drive the second rod one rod length away from the
first rod and trench between the rods. The deeper the better. I use
#4 bare copper since it is not required to be protected. As Tom Horne
has stated in other threads in this NG, if you're going to do all that,
it would be better and about as much work to establish a "ground ring"
while you're at it. A minimum ground ring would require using #2 bare
copper at least 20 feet long and buried at least 30 inches.

After driving the rods (preferably 5/8" copper), run the wire from the
panel to the first rod, through the acorn nut without slice then on the
the next rod. Then working your way back to the panel, connect the
wire to the second rod, tighten the ground clamp at the first rod, then
connect to the panel. De-energize the main panel breaker before
removing the original grounding system wiring.

If you still insist on using a split bolt, which is not acceptable by
NEC if the splice is before the first rod, at least use one that is
listed for the purpose, which usually means using one made of brass,
overlap the wires about one foot and use two split bolts.


Posted by Fpbear II on January 13, 2007, 3:06 pm


Good tips. I should note that the existing ground wire coming out of the
service panel ends at a clamp on a copper pipe. This copper pipe was cut
somewhere not too far under the ground for the PVC. I wasn't around when
this re-piping project was done, but I am getting crazy voltages, 134V at a
couple outlets, and 4V difference between this ground wire and the fence
post, so I'm sure this is part of the problem. I was intending to leave the
copper pipe clamp like it is and just "extend" the system so it can also
benefit from this little pipe section. I will make sure it is done right,
probably leave some extra wire near the service panel till I figure out how
to make the connection.


> Please don't do that. No offense, but you'll probably just make a mess
> of it. Even if you can make a decent braze, brazing is not accepted by
> NEC. Here is an acceptable ground clamp, readily available at Home
> Depot:
>
http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL-EZ/products.nsf/ItemMasterLookup/p87-812?OpenDocument
>
> Usually referred to an "acorn nut," the one in the link is for 1/2"
> ground rods. They are also available for 5/8" rods. It helps to slide
> the acorn nut(s) onto the the ground rod _before_ driving it, if using
> a sledge hammer, as the head tends to mushroom, making it a PITA to
> install the acorn nut after the fact.
>
> Pete C and gfretwell had some good suggestions. If I were doing it, I
> would drive the first ground rod as close to the electric service as
> possible, preferably 18" away from the house so it is at or outside of
> the roof drip line. Drive the second rod one rod length away from the
> first rod and trench between the rods. The deeper the better. I use
> #4 bare copper since it is not required to be protected. As Tom Horne
> has stated in other threads in this NG, if you're going to do all that,
> it would be better and about as much work to establish a "ground ring"
> while you're at it. A minimum ground ring would require using #2 bare
> copper at least 20 feet long and buried at least 30 inches.
>
> After driving the rods (preferably 5/8" copper), run the wire from the
> panel to the first rod, through the acorn nut without slice then on the
> the next rod. Then working your way back to the panel, connect the
> wire to the second rod, tighten the ground clamp at the first rod, then
> connect to the panel. De-energize the main panel breaker before
> removing the original grounding system wiring.
>
> If you still insist on using a split bolt, which is not acceptable by
> NEC if the splice is before the first rod, at least use one that is
> listed for the purpose, which usually means using one made of brass,
> overlap the wires about one foot and use two split bolts.
>



Posted by Don Young on January 13, 2007, 9:36 pm



> Good tips. I should note that the existing ground wire coming out of the
> service panel ends at a clamp on a copper pipe. This copper pipe was cut
> somewhere not too far under the ground for the PVC. I wasn't around when
> this re-piping project was done, but I am getting crazy voltages, 134V at
> a couple outlets, and 4V difference between this ground wire and the fence
> post, so I'm sure this is part of the problem. I was intending to leave
> the copper pipe clamp like it is and just "extend" the system so it can
> also benefit from this little pipe section. I will make sure it is done
> right, probably leave some extra wire near the service panel till I figure
> out how to make the connection.
>
>
>> Please don't do that. No offense, but you'll probably just make a mess
>> of it. Even if you can make a decent braze, brazing is not accepted by
>> NEC. Here is an acceptable ground clamp, readily available at Home
>> Depot:
>>
http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL-EZ/products.nsf/ItemMasterLookup/p87-812?OpenDocument
>>
>> Usually referred to an "acorn nut," the one in the link is for 1/2"
>> ground rods. They are also available for 5/8" rods. It helps to slide
>> the acorn nut(s) onto the the ground rod _before_ driving it, if using
>> a sledge hammer, as the head tends to mushroom, making it a PITA to
>> install the acorn nut after the fact.
>>
>> Pete C and gfretwell had some good suggestions. If I were doing it, I
>> would drive the first ground rod as close to the electric service as
>> possible, preferably 18" away from the house so it is at or outside of
>> the roof drip line. Drive the second rod one rod length away from the
>> first rod and trench between the rods. The deeper the better. I use
>> #4 bare copper since it is not required to be protected. As Tom Horne
>> has stated in other threads in this NG, if you're going to do all that,
>> it would be better and about as much work to establish a "ground ring"
>> while you're at it. A minimum ground ring would require using #2 bare
>> copper at least 20 feet long and buried at least 30 inches.
>>
>> After driving the rods (preferably 5/8" copper), run the wire from the
>> panel to the first rod, through the acorn nut without slice then on the
>> the next rod. Then working your way back to the panel, connect the
>> wire to the second rod, tighten the ground clamp at the first rod, then
>> connect to the panel. De-energize the main panel breaker before
>> removing the original grounding system wiring.
>>
>> If you still insist on using a split bolt, which is not acceptable by
>> NEC if the splice is before the first rod, at least use one that is
>> listed for the purpose, which usually means using one made of brass,
>> overlap the wires about one foot and use two split bolts.
>>
>
Nothing right or wrong in the ground system can causse you to have 134 volts
at an outlet and you will never stop having voltages between differing
grounds. The advice you have been given is good, you need a good ground and
it needs to be done according to all applicable codes. Having 134 volts at
an outlet can only be a result of excessive input from the power company or
a high resistance in the neutral line. Having voltages between different
grounds is perfectly normal and will always exist.

Don Young



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