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Continuous copper wire to earth ground

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Continuous copper wire to earth ground Fpbear II 01-13-2007
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Posted by zxcvbob on January 13, 2007, 6:36 pm


CJT wrote:
> DK wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Thank you Bob, I'll braze the split bolt connector. I have a torch
>>> that I used years ago to fix a copper water pipe. I don't remember
>>> how to solder with it but I think I can find some crash course on the
>>> net. Still a bit curious how this affects the physical properties of
>>> the electricity running through the wire.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> One continuous conductor, unless spliced with an irreversible
>>>> connections such as an exothermic weld (solder is not good enough).
>>>> Do you have access to a good torch? I would use a split bolt
>>>> connector and then after tightening it braze shut it with 40% silver
>>>> solder. Solid #6 wire should be enough; no need to use #4 unless
>>>> the wire is subject to being damaged by a lawn mower or something.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>
>>
>> Yes, Bob. You do that and it will be more than enough.
>
> Will it meet code?


It should, but that's up to the inspector (if there is one.)
A split bolt connector is a compression joint. When you solder the threads
(especially using hard solder), you've made it irreversible.

Just make sure it looks neat. Don't try to solder or braze the wires, the
silver solder is just to make the split bolt connection permanent.

Best regards,
Bob

PexSupply QuikTrak 468x60
Posted by volts500 on January 13, 2007, 10:27 pm


zxcvbob wrote:

> > Will it meet code?

No, it will not meet code.

> It should, but that's up to the inspector (if there is one.)

If you can find an electrical inspector who will pass a hack job like
that, I'd like to know his/her supervisor's name. Now that you bring
it up, making major changes to an electric system ground _is_ something
that should be inspected by a local electrical inspector, if there is
one.

> A split bolt connector is a compression joint. When you solder the threads
> (especially using hard solder), you've made it irreversible.

The NEC is very clear that the grounding electrode conductor must be
continuous, without splice. The NEC also realizes that buildings get
remodeled and that situations, such as the OP's, do occur. For those
reasons the NEC, specifically (2002) Section 250.64(C), does permit
splices to be made and _only_ made by an "exothermic welding process",
i.e. CadWeld, or by "irreversible compression-type connectors LISTED
for the purpose."

A silver-soldered split bolt is _not_ a listed irreversible compression
type connector. Both a CadWeld and the tool required to crimp the
irreversible connectors are beyond the capabilities of most residential
electrical contractors, mostly due to cost, let alone a home owner.
Cadweld does make a disposable One Shot, but that is for connection of
wire to ground rods. AFAIK, CadWeld doesn't make a wire to wire One
Shot. The OP could call around and find a commercial electrical
contractor who may rent him a crimping tool for irreversible
connectors, but that would probably be cost prohibitive too.

> Just make sure it looks neat. Don't try to solder or braze the wires, the
> silver solder is just to make the split bolt connection permanent.

As long as it's neat a hack job is OK? I once saw a house wired with
lamp cord. Sure was neatly installed, though. Just one of those
things that one just doesn't believe until one sees it. I once found a
120 volt duplex receptacle wired with telephone wire, but it wasn't
neat, the wire wasn't stapled.

All this, just because the OP doesn't feel comfortable getting inside
the main panel, and now you've got him out in the dirt with a torch?
I've been doing electrical work for 30 years and I've yet to see an
electrician with a torch, with the exception of maybe using a propane
torch to dry out a damp CadWeld mold before using it, or to fire off
the starter powder because his ignitor took a dump.


Posted by Tom Horne, Electrician on January 14, 2007, 2:59 pm


volts500 wrote:
> zxcvbob wrote:
>
>>> Will it meet code?
>
> No, it will not meet code.
>
>> It should, but that's up to the inspector (if there is one.)
>
> If you can find an electrical inspector who will pass a hack job like
> that, I'd like to know his/her supervisor's name. Now that you bring
> it up, making major changes to an electric system ground _is_ something
> that should be inspected by a local electrical inspector, if there is
> one.
>
>> A split bolt connector is a compression joint. When you solder the threads
>> (especially using hard solder), you've made it irreversible.
>
> The NEC is very clear that the grounding electrode conductor must be
> continuous, without splice. The NEC also realizes that buildings get
> remodeled and that situations, such as the OP's, do occur. For those
> reasons the NEC, specifically (2002) Section 250.64(C), does permit
> splices to be made and _only_ made by an "exothermic welding process",
> i.e. CadWeld, or by "irreversible compression-type connectors LISTED
> for the purpose."
>
> A silver-soldered split bolt is _not_ a listed irreversible compression
> type connector. Both a CadWeld and the tool required to crimp the
> irreversible connectors are beyond the capabilities of most residential
> electrical contractors, mostly due to cost, let alone a home owner.
> Cadweld does make a disposable One Shot, but that is for connection of
> wire to ground rods. AFAIK, CadWeld doesn't make a wire to wire One
> Shot. The OP could call around and find a commercial electrical
> contractor who may rent him a crimping tool for irreversible
> connectors, but that would probably be cost prohibitive too.
>
>> Just make sure it looks neat. Don't try to solder or braze the wires, the
>> silver solder is just to make the split bolt connection permanent.
>
> As long as it's neat a hack job is OK? I once saw a house wired with
> lamp cord. Sure was neatly installed, though. Just one of those
> things that one just doesn't believe until one sees it. I once found a
> 120 volt duplex receptacle wired with telephone wire, but it wasn't
> neat, the wire wasn't stapled.
>
> All this, just because the OP doesn't feel comfortable getting inside
> the main panel, and now you've got him out in the dirt with a torch?
> I've been doing electrical work for 30 years and I've yet to see an
> electrician with a torch, with the exception of maybe using a propane
> torch to dry out a damp CadWeld mold before using it, or to fire off
> the starter powder because his ignitor took a dump.
>

I've used a torch on the shrink tubing that is used to cover UF splicers
all the time. It seems to work fine and I haven't had any call backs
because of it.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

Posted by Tom The Great on January 13, 2007, 12:14 pm


wrote:

>Fpbear II wrote:
>> I am extending the ground for the service panel with two 8' rods because the
>> pipes were re-done in PVC. I plan to attach #4 wire to the end of the
>> existing #6 wire with two copper split-bolt connectors and make the
>> connection real tight. I have been reading that the copper ground wire
>> should be one continuous wire. However I pefer not to mess with high
>> voltage and take apart the service panel to make it one continuous ground
>> wire. Are the split bolt connectors sufficient or is there some "physics"
>> reason it must be one wire? Or is it to prevent someone from accidentally
>> un-screwing the bolt?
>>
>>
>
>
>One continuous conductor, unless spliced with an irreversible connections
>such as an exothermic weld (solder is not good enough). Do you have access
>to a good torch? I would use a split bolt connector and then after
>tightening it braze shut it with 40% silver solder. Solid #6 wire should
>be enough; no need to use #4 unless the wire is subject to being damaged by
>a lawn mower or something.
>
>Bob


Good advice! Just want to add, to help the 'grounding' effect, the
code requires those rods 6 feet apart, but make them 8. Easy way to
do this, drive the first one, then lay the second one on the ground,
and then that's 8 feet.

The idea about the splice, it should be in such a way that over a long
time, nothing can work it's way loose. The grounding system with the
rods stablizes voltages and can help extend the life of many of your
home's electronics. So it's a good idea to follow the NEC
requirements, and do it once right.

Remember, not your electrician, so just my options. ;)

tom @ www.Florida-VOIP.com


Posted by Dean Hoffman on January 13, 2007, 7:51 am



> I am extending the ground for the service panel with two 8' rods because the
> pipes were re-done in PVC. I plan to attach #4 wire to the end of the
> existing #6 wire with two copper split-bolt connectors and make the
> connection real tight. I have been reading that the copper ground wire
> should be one continuous wire. However I pefer not to mess with high
> voltage and take apart the service panel to make it one continuous ground
> wire. Are the split bolt connectors sufficient or is there some "physics"
> reason it must be one wire? Or is it to prevent someone from accidentally
> un-screwing the bolt?

It's due to the destructive power of a lightning strike.
The idea is to make it as easy as possible for the lightning to get to
ground without damaging anything. There aren't supposed to be sharp
bends in the wire to the ground rod either. The wire isn't supposed to
be wrapped around anything. It's supposed to be as straight as
possible. #6 is specified since a ground rod can handle only so much
current anyhow. Going to a larger size wire won't help a whole bunch.

Dean

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