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Contract fell thru - need advice

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Contract fell thru - need advice wipeout64@hotmail.com 07-07-2006
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Posted by Oren on July 7, 2006, 4:01 pm
>>A contractor will have to stand in line; after mortgage lenders. So if
>>I supply the paint, what is the point except I owe him for labor,
>>right?
>>
>>If everyone owed money today; forced a sale, we would have night court
>>with long lines.
>>
>>A contract breach doesn't turn into foreclosure... promissory note to
>>the bank is another issue.
>>
>>Oren
>
> I wish I lived in your world, Oren. You have such an innocent view
>of things.

And a hard head. I'm not taking away from the right of the contractor
to do what is lawful in Civil Court. If that's innocent I'm guilty.

> I'm sure if I took the time, I could find you where some contractor
>sold a million dollar property to satisfy a $500 bill that the owner
>ignored.

I'm not picking it apart. You said before wrong and then see the
exception, okay your guy won.

> It's old news and old law. Right now, what is hot is the home owners
>association selling million dollar homes because owners didn't pay a
>$150 maintenance fee.

Our association has been fining a guy in our area for a very long
time. The fines, and I guess interest grows each year. It was over the
color of the paint in the fascia board.

Bottom line - they cannot foreclose, but will have the lien when he
tries to sell. The guy will loose in the end.

So we have exemptions and some states don't.

Oren



AppliancePartsPros.com, Inc.
Posted by JimL on July 7, 2006, 5:32 pm

>>>A contractor will have to stand in line; after mortgage lenders. So if
>>>I supply the paint, what is the point except I owe him for labor,
>>>right?
>>>
>>>If everyone owed money today; forced a sale, we would have night court
>>>with long lines.
>>>
>>>A contract breach doesn't turn into foreclosure... promissory note to
>>>the bank is another issue.
>>>
>>>Oren
>>
>> I wish I lived in your world, Oren. You have such an innocent view
>>of things.
>
>And a hard head. I'm not taking away from the right of the contractor
>to do what is lawful in Civil Court. If that's innocent I'm guilty.

Even worse, In my state, there is no court action required. The
whole thing from beginning to end (sale) can be done without any court
being involved..

>
>> I'm sure if I took the time, I could find you where some contractor
>>sold a million dollar property to satisfy a $500 bill that the owner
>>ignored.
>
>I'm not picking it apart. You said before wrong and then see the
>exception, okay your guy won.
>
>> It's old news and old law. Right now, what is hot is the home owners
>>association selling million dollar homes because owners didn't pay a
>>$150 maintenance fee.
>
>Our association has been fining a guy in our area for a very long
>time. The fines, and I guess interest grows each year. It was over the
>color of the paint in the fascia board.
>
>Bottom line - they cannot foreclose, but will have the lien when he
>tries to sell. The guy will loose in the end.

In my state, they have sold many homes causing great surprise and
heartache to the owners. The law of the land right now in my state
is that they can do that legally. Our state has just added new
redemption rights and more notice provisions, but it is still legal to
sell at foreclosure for not paying annual association dues.

Of course, it also clouds the title.....



>
>So we have exemptions and some states don't.
>
>Oren
>




Posted by Calvin Henry-Cotnam on July 7, 2006, 9:05 pm
JimL (me@privacy.net) said...
>
> There may be exceptions to what I said in each of the many
>jurisdictions, but that doesn't change the general rule which is true
>in most jurisdictions in this country.
>
>"MECHANICS LIEN - A claim against real estate made by a contractor,
>subcontractor, or supplier of building materials who contributed to
>improvements built on the real estate. A mechanics lien, if enforced,
>permits the party who filed the claim to force a sale of the real
>estate to pay the claim. "

Only if there is no other title on the property. If you hold a first
mortgage, the lender of that COMES FIRST and they are the only one who
can force the sale of the property. A mechanic's lien waits in line, so
if the mortgage lender is happy with the situation and is not interested
in foreclosing, the contractor can wait until the cows come home.

If you ever pay off the mortgage before selling the property, the
mortgage is discharged and any other interests move up the queue,
possibly putting the the contractor in first position, who could then
force a forclosure if you are not paying them.

Should you sell the property, all interests must be discharged before
the deed can be transferred, so the contractor would have to be paid
or somehow made happy enough to discharge the lien before the sale
could be completed. If you refuse to do what is necessary to discharge
the lien, then the purchaser of the property will have grounds to start
an action against you.

<OBdisclaimer>
I am not a lawyer, but I sometimes play one on a local talk radio show! ;-)
</OBdisclaimer>

After building my own home, I have had some personal experience in this
area. The company I contracted with to install our HVAC automatically
filed a lien on the property the day after I signed with them. The contract
stipulated that NOTHING was payable until 3 months after completion, when
it could be paid in full without interest, or billed through our natural
gas bill over 12 years at almost that rate of interest (I wanted to use
the first option!).

I only found out about this when our construction mortgage was being
processed. The initial draw was to pay off and discharge the vendor take
back morgtage on the lot. Since the lien was there, the lien would move
into first position. I was able to successfully argue with the contractor
that they had no right to register the lien until the money became due.

To get through the first draw on the construction mortgage, a postponement
had to be issued on the lien (I was still arguing about whether the lien
should even be there) so that the new lender could move into first
position of interest on the property when the original mortgage on the
lot was discharged. In the end, as I said, the lien was discharged at the
contractor's expense AND they reimbursed me for my lawyer's fees for
handling the postponement.

--
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
"I really think Canada should get over to Iraq as quickly as possible"
- Paul Martin - April 30, 2003
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: if replying by email, remove "remove." and ".invalid"


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Posted by JimL on July 8, 2006, 1:47 am
On 08 Jul 2006 01:05:31 GMT, calvin@remove.daxack.ca.invalid (Calvin
Henry-Cotnam) wrote:

>JimL (me@privacy.net) said...
>>
>> There may be exceptions to what I said in each of the many
>>jurisdictions, but that doesn't change the general rule which is true
>>in most jurisdictions in this country.
>>
>>"MECHANICS LIEN - A claim against real estate made by a contractor,
>>subcontractor, or supplier of building materials who contributed to
>>improvements built on the real estate. A mechanics lien, if enforced,
>>permits the party who filed the claim to force a sale of the real
>>estate to pay the claim. "
>
>Only if there is no other title on the property. If you hold a first
>mortgage, the lender of that COMES FIRST and they are the only one who
>can force the sale of the property. A mechanic's lien waits in line, so
>if the mortgage lender is happy with the situation and is not interested
>in foreclosing, the contractor can wait until the cows come home.
>
>If you ever pay off the mortgage before selling the property, the
>mortgage is discharged and any other interests move up the queue,
>possibly putting the the contractor in first position, who could then
>force a forclosure if you are not paying them.
>
>Should you sell the property, all interests must be discharged before
>the deed can be transferred, so the contractor would have to be paid
>or somehow made happy enough to discharge the lien before the sale
>could be completed. If you refuse to do what is necessary to discharge
>the lien, then the purchaser of the property will have grounds to start
>an action against you.
>
><OBdisclaimer>
>I am not a lawyer, but I sometimes play one on a local talk radio show! ;-)
></OBdisclaimer>
>
>After building my own home, I have had some personal experience in this
>area. The company I contracted with to install our HVAC automatically
>filed a lien on the property the day after I signed with them. The contract
>stipulated that NOTHING was payable until 3 months after completion, when
>it could be paid in full without interest, or billed through our natural
>gas bill over 12 years at almost that rate of interest (I wanted to use
>the first option!).
>
>I only found out about this when our construction mortgage was being
>processed. The initial draw was to pay off and discharge the vendor take
>back morgtage on the lot. Since the lien was there, the lien would move
>into first position. I was able to successfully argue with the contractor
>that they had no right to register the lien until the money became due.
>
>To get through the first draw on the construction mortgage, a postponement
>had to be issued on the lien (I was still arguing about whether the lien
>should even be there) so that the new lender could move into first
>position of interest on the property when the original mortgage on the
>lot was discharged. In the end, as I said, the lien was discharged at the
>contractor's expense AND they reimbursed me for my lawyer's fees for
>handling the postponement.
>
>--
>Calvin Henry-Cotnam
>"I really think Canada should get over to Iraq as quickly as possible"
> - Paul Martin - April 30, 2003
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>NOTE: if replying by email, remove "remove." and ".invalid"

Not so in most states.

For instance, In Texas, a Mechanics Lien for labor and materials can
easily be taken to court and the property foreclosed, even though
there is a valid prior recorded lien.

You foreclose on the property by going to court with your M&M lien
and the property is ordered sold by the court. The prior lien is not
affected by the sale. That means that the buyer at the M&M
foreclosure sale takes the property encumbered by the prior lien. In
actuality, the prior lien holder becomes involved early on because
they want to protect their rights.

In Texas, the prior lien is a Deed of Trust lien which means that the
holder of the note can foreclose without court intervention by selling
the property between the hours of 10am and 4 pm on the courthouse
steps. The M&M proceeding are almost always a triggering mechanism so
the original lender can foreclose.

My point is that the M&M lien is VERY serious business and if you are
not careful, you can lose your home to a foreclosure sale.

Here is some actual Texas code:
----

"        § 53.123. PRIORITY OF MECHANIC'S LIEN OVER OTHER
LIENS. (a) Except as provided by this section, a mechanic's lien
attaches to the house, building, improvements, or railroad property
in preference to any prior lien, encumbrance, or mortgage on the
land on which it is located, and the person enforcing the lien may
have the house, building, improvement, or any piece of the railroad
property sold separately.
        (b) The mechanic's lien does not affect any lien,
encumbrance, or mortgage on the land or improvement at the time of
the inception of the mechanic's lien, and the holder of the lien,
encumbrance, or mortgage need not be made a party to a suit to
foreclose the mechanic's lien."
------




Posted by HeyBub on July 7, 2006, 4:42 pm
Oren wrote:
>
>>> A lien doesn't give him the right to foreclose, merely to be paid
>>> when/if the property is sold.
>>
>> Wrong again.
>
> How's that? In NV we Have Homestead Exemption that explicitly
> prohibits your home from being sold for debt you owe.
>
> A lien is just a cloud on the property and needs to be cleared before
> sale.

We have (almost) the same homestead rule in Texas. The property can,
however, be seized and sold for three types of debt:
1. Incurred for the original purchase;
2. Taxes;
3. For improvements to the property.

Plus, there are requirements that must be met before the property can even
be considered to be a homestead (you have to actually LIVE there, for one).



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