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Conversion to gas? ? ? Ray 05-08-2008
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Posted by Edwin Pawlowski on May 10, 2008, 7:35 am

>
>> The boilers have input of 5,500,000 Btu each. Tell me how many acres of
>> solar I'll need to convert 350 to 450 gallons of water per hour (at 60
>> degrees) to steam at 100 psi, especially running at night.
>
> I don't know and neither do you. What I'm saying is that if I had
> no choice but to spend that much money on heating just one thing
> I would at the very least, get a quote instead of complaining about
> it.
> Lou

First off, I'm not complaining, I'm looking at reducing fuel costs. Just
stating a fact

The magnitude of steam that we use would probably need a few thousand acres
of solar panels in Arizona, not New England. Then we'd need accumulators
capable of holding massive amounts of high pressure steam during the dark
hours. There are NO industrial process boilers powered by solar because of
the utter impracticality of it.



Posted by ransley on May 10, 2008, 7:54 am
>
>
>
>
> >> The boilers have input of 5,500,000 Btu each. =A0 Tell me how many acre=
s of
> >> solar I'll need to convert 350 to =A0450 gallons of water per hour (at =
=A060
> >> degrees) to steam at 100 psi, especially running at night.
>
> > I don't know and neither do you. What I'm saying is that if I had
> > no choice but to spend that much money on heating just one thing
> > I would at the very least, get a quote instead of complaining about
> > it.
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Lou
>
> First off, I'm not complaining, I'm looking at reducing fuel costs. =A0Jus=
t
> stating a fact
>
> The magnitude of steam that we use would probably need a few thousand acre=
s
> of solar panels in Arizona, not New England. =A0Then we'd need accumulator=
s
> capable of holding massive amounts of high pressure steam during the dark
> hours. =A0There are NO industrial process boilers powered by solar because=
of
> the utter impracticality of it.

11,000,000 btu whats your gas bill 100,000.00 a year, well maybe
2,000,000 of solar might do it, just pocket change, just curious are
those 83% efficient, how about condensing add ons do they work.

Posted by Pete C. on May 10, 2008, 9:51 am

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> >
> >> The boilers have input of 5,500,000 Btu each. Tell me how many acres of
> >> solar I'll need to convert 350 to 450 gallons of water per hour (at 60
> >> degrees) to steam at 100 psi, especially running at night.
> >
> > I don't know and neither do you. What I'm saying is that if I had
> > no choice but to spend that much money on heating just one thing
> > I would at the very least, get a quote instead of complaining about
> > it.
> > Lou
>
> First off, I'm not complaining, I'm looking at reducing fuel costs. Just
> stating a fact
>
> The magnitude of steam that we use would probably need a few thousand acres
> of solar panels in Arizona, not New England. Then we'd need accumulators
> capable of holding massive amounts of high pressure steam during the dark
> hours. There are NO industrial process boilers powered by solar because of
> the utter impracticality of it.

A building the size that would house such boilers and the process
equipment using their output probably has enough roof area to hold a
reflector array and collector tower to generate the daytime steam. Not
going to help at night, but assuming constant three shift use could
cover 30% of the energy needs.

Posted by Edwin Pawlowski on May 10, 2008, 10:22 am

>> The magnitude of steam that we use would probably need a few thousand
>> acres
>> of solar panels in Arizona, not New England. Then we'd need accumulators
>> capable of holding massive amounts of high pressure steam during the dark
>> hours. There are NO industrial process boilers powered by solar because
>> of
>> the utter impracticality of it.
>
> A building the size that would house such boilers and the process
> equipment using their output probably has enough roof area to hold a
> reflector array and collector tower to generate the daytime steam. Not
> going to help at night, but assuming constant three shift use could
> cover 30% of the energy needs.


To run at 50% capacity of 5,500,000 Btu it is not practical.
A very efficient solar panel can produce 20 watts per hour per square foot
at noon on a sunny day . I'd need 80,000 sq. ft. of the 30,000 sq. ft.
available to do it for even a portion of the day. Factor in cloudy day,
winter sun hours, loss of transmission and conversion, heat storage and
anything else, you see the practicality of it.

Anyone know what 80,000 square feet of solar collection is worth? Now we
have to store surplus energy to be used at other times of the day.



Posted by Pete C. on May 10, 2008, 11:37 am

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> >> The magnitude of steam that we use would probably need a few thousand
> >> acres
> >> of solar panels in Arizona, not New England. Then we'd need accumulators
> >> capable of holding massive amounts of high pressure steam during the dark
> >> hours. There are NO industrial process boilers powered by solar because
> >> of
> >> the utter impracticality of it.
> >
> > A building the size that would house such boilers and the process
> > equipment using their output probably has enough roof area to hold a
> > reflector array and collector tower to generate the daytime steam. Not
> > going to help at night, but assuming constant three shift use could
> > cover 30% of the energy needs.
>
> To run at 50% capacity of 5,500,000 Btu it is not practical.
> A very efficient solar panel can produce 20 watts per hour per square foot
> at noon on a sunny day . I'd need 80,000 sq. ft. of the 30,000 sq. ft.
> available to do it for even a portion of the day. Factor in cloudy day,
> winter sun hours, loss of transmission and conversion, heat storage and
> anything else, you see the practicality of it.
>
> Anyone know what 80,000 square feet of solar collection is worth? Now we
> have to store surplus energy to be used at other times of the day.

You're thinking of the wrong technology. You don't use solar PV or solar
hot water thermal, you use a concentrating steam boiler setup, like used
at a few CA commercial solar utility generating stations. An array of
tracking reflectors concentrating the energy on a single central
collector-boiler. For your application there are no transmission and
conversion losses since you directly generate the steam you need above
the plant that is using it. You do not bother trying to store any of the
energy for night use, you simply ramp the oil / gas fired boilers back
up for the evening. 30% energy savings using existing roof space. Think
tax credits too...

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