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Posted by Nick Pine on May 31, 2008, 12:46 pm
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>Wake up man 12.5c is Twelve Dollars 50 cents a KWH...
That works for tiny dollars :-)
Nick
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Posted by nicksanspam on May 31, 2008, 1:06 pm
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>... I want to know if someone in the group knows which is cheaper (per BTU)
>- oil at $4.50 per gallon
That's $4.50/(0.8x1.3therms) = $4.33/therm, burned at 80% efficiency.
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>or heat pump at $0.125/kWh
That's $0.125/(5x0.03412therms) = $0.73, with water source heat pump
with a COP of 5.
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>... as well as the cost to convert
The ground or well loop may be the most expensive part of a heat pump.
A 3-ton 5-COP Climatemaster Tranquility 27 box with a pump and blower
and heat exchanger but no loop costs about $5K and uses less power
than a toaster.
Nick
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Posted by Ralph Mowery on May 30, 2008, 7:48 pm
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> My 3000+ sq ft (incl basement) house has two-zone heating/cooling, with
> an oil furnace and air conditioner for the basement and first floor, and a
> heat pump for the upstairs.
> I bought the house three years ago, when oil was less than $2.00 per
> gallon.
> Due to the high cost of oil, I called the oil company about budget billing
> (same price every month), and was told they are using $4.50 per gallon as
> a planning number for next heating season, and said I use about 280
> gallons per heating season.
> Also, I live in Maryland where the local utility company was deregulated
> and for the first time in 15 years, was able to raise rates last year.
> They claimed it was a 50% increase. I don't see how a jump from about
> $150 to $300 per month is 50%. That's 100%. With oil heat on the first
> floor, my annual monthly average use is about 2400 kWh per month.
> Where I live there is no natural gas available.
> I'm sure this has been discussed here before, but is it worth an
> investment for me to switch from oil and a/c for the basement and first
> floor to a second heat pump or other energy source? If so, what other
> factors need to be considered, for example will my electric panel be able
> to handle two heat pumps? I have neighbors with two heat pumps rather
> than one plus oil/ a/c - that's what the builder installed for them.
> What about a propane tank?
> Finally, my oil tank is full. Would I be better to deplete it over the
> next winter, then convert?
> What is a typical cost to convert? Will a HVAC company dispose of the oil
> tank? Any other issues to consider? If this is a viable investment, how
> long will it take to realize a positive return on the investment?
Is it warm enough in Maryland to get much efficency out of a heat pump ?
Being in an area where it does not get much below 30 deg, many days out of
most years a heat pump seems to be the way to go.
I have one and on some days when it gets in the 20's I will sometimes start
up a wood stove in the basement. I do not usually burn it too much, but do
have it for emergency heat if the power goes out for a long period of time.
That has not hapened to me in the 4 years I have lived here. In another
house it was out for about 3 days (2 nights) and an unvented natural gas
heater I had installed in a single carport that had been enclosed saved us
from being cold.
I usually only burn a stack of wood about 4 feet high and 6 feet long and
about 18 inches wide. The basement is not heated as a rule, but I do have
one room about 12 x 20 that has a dropped cealing and heat it with an
electric bathroom type heater if I plan on being in that room for a while.
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Posted by hallerb@aol.com on May 30, 2008, 8:36 pm
On May 30, 6:20=EF=BF=BDpm, "Dimitrios Paskoudniakis" <greek...@yeahright.co=
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m>
wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> My 3000+ sq ft =EF=BF=BD(incl basement) house has two-zone heating/cooling=
, with an
show/hide quoted text
> oil furnace and air conditioner for the basement and first floor, and a he=
> pump for the upstairs.
> I bought the house three years ago, when oil was less than $2.00 per gallo=
> Due to the high cost of oil, I called the oil company about budget billing=
> (same price every month), and was told they are using $4.50 per gallon as =
> planning number for next heating season, and said I use about 280 gallons
> per heating season.
> Also, I live in Maryland where the local utility company was deregulated a=
> for the first time in 15 years, was able to raise rates last year. =EF=BF=
=BDThey
show/hide quoted text
> claimed it was a 50% increase. =EF=BF=BDI don't see how a jump from about =
$150 to
show/hide quoted text
> $300 per month is 50%. =EF=BF=BDThat's 100%. =EF=BF=BDWith oil heat on the=
first floor, my
show/hide quoted text
> annual monthly average use is about 2400 kWh per month.
> Where I live there is no natural gas available.
> I'm sure this has been discussed here before, but is it worth an investmen=
> for me to switch from oil and a/c for the basement and first floor to a
> second heat pump or other energy source? =EF=BF=BDIf so, what other factor=
s need to
show/hide quoted text
> be considered, for example will my electric panel be able to handle two he=
> pumps? =EF=BF=BDI have neighbors with two heat pumps rather than one plus =
oil/ a/c -
show/hide quoted text
> that's what the builder installed for them.
> What about a propane tank?
> Finally, my oil tank is full. =EF=BF=BDWould I be better to deplete it ove=
r the next
show/hide quoted text
> winter, then convert?
> What is a typical cost to convert? =EF=BF=BDWill a HVAC company dispose of=
the oil
show/hide quoted text
> tank? =EF=BF=BDAny other issues to consider? =EF=BF=BDIf this is a viable =
investment, how
show/hide quoted text
> long will it take to realize a positive return on the investment?
you have a full tank? lucky you.
bide your time, oil prices may drop like a rock.
either a worldwide depression will kill consumption or a new
president and congress will find a alternative fuel plan and the oil
producing countries will increase production to try and derail the
replacement fuel.
either way the mid east oil producers will ultimartely lose
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Posted by Dimitrios Paskoudniakis on May 30, 2008, 8:46 pm
wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> My 3000+ sq ft ?(incl basement) house has two-zone heating/cooling, with
> an
> oil furnace and air conditioner for the basement and first floor, and a
> heat
> pump for the upstairs.
> I bought the house three years ago, when oil was less than $2.00 per
> gallon.
> Due to the high cost of oil, I called the oil company about budget billing
> (same price every month), and was told they are using $4.50 per gallon as
> a
> planning number for next heating season, and said I use about 280 gallons
> per heating season.
> Also, I live in Maryland where the local utility company was deregulated
> and
> for the first time in 15 years, was able to raise rates last year. ?They
> claimed it was a 50% increase. ?I don't see how a jump from about $150 to
> $300 per month is 50%. ?That's 100%. ?With oil heat on the first floor, my
> annual monthly average use is about 2400 kWh per month.
> Where I live there is no natural gas available.
> I'm sure this has been discussed here before, but is it worth an
> investment
> for me to switch from oil and a/c for the basement and first floor to a
> second heat pump or other energy source? ?If so, what other factors need
> to
> be considered, for example will my electric panel be able to handle two
> heat
> pumps? ?I have neighbors with two heat pumps rather than one plus oil/
> a/c -
> that's what the builder installed for them.
> What about a propane tank?
> Finally, my oil tank is full. ?Would I be better to deplete it over the
> next
> winter, then convert?
> What is a typical cost to convert? ?Will a HVAC company dispose of the oil
> tank? ?Any other issues to consider? ?If this is a viable investment, how
> long will it take to realize a positive return on the investment?
you have a full tank? lucky you.
bide your time, oil prices may drop like a rock.
either a worldwide depression will kill consumption or a new
president and congress will find a alternative fuel plan and the oil
producing countries will increase production to try and derail the
replacement fuel.
either way the mid east oil producers will ultimartely lose
_________________________
Lucky me indeed. I think my last fill was about $600 for around 150 gal
after a fill about two months earlier. That works out to needing about
$300/month in the heating season, in addition to my average monthly $300
electric.
Good advice though (really, not sarcasm), thanks. I hope you're right.
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