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Posted by JIMMIE on November 3, 2009, 12:18 pm
wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> Awl -
> I'm =A0doing some demo on my 50's kitchen, which was done pretty well,
> overall -- 3/4 black pipe to a 6 burner stove, etc.
> Except, they tee'd off underneath for the gas line to the oven, using 1/2=
or
show/hide quoted text
> 5/8" copper, flare fitting.
> I've been told copper gets brittle with natural gas, and is therefore
> against many codes. =A0Is this accurate? =A0Is this a recent discovery? =
=A0Seems
show/hide quoted text
> odd that the original installers would use 3/4" black pipe, and then wimp
> out at the end.
> Are there similar restrictions with copper and propane? =A0Other gases?
> If this restriction is only with nat gas, I assume it's because of the
> sulfer additive (smell) that reacts with the copper.
> tia
> --
> EA
Call your natural gas supplier. I got a lot of good info when I added
a concrete porch onto the back of my house. The project interfered
with the planned installation of a gas line to a fireplace that was
surround on three sides by the patio. BTW the last few feet of my
fireplace installation is with soft Cu tubing, so is my gas water
heater and furnace . The installation was done by the gas Co so I am
assuming it is OK for short terminating lengths. The opinion of your
gas Co may be different.
Jimmie
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Posted by DD_BobK on November 3, 2009, 12:43 pm
wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> Awl -
> I'm =A0doing some demo on my 50's kitchen, which was done pretty well,
> overall -- 3/4 black pipe to a 6 burner stove, etc.
> Except, they tee'd off underneath for the gas line to the oven, using 1/2=
or
show/hide quoted text
> 5/8" copper, flare fitting.
> I've been told copper gets brittle with natural gas, and is therefore
> against many codes. =A0Is this accurate? =A0Is this a recent discovery? =
=A0Seems
show/hide quoted text
> odd that the original installers would use 3/4" black pipe, and then wimp
> out at the end.
> Are there similar restrictions with copper and propane? =A0Other gases?
> If this restriction is only with nat gas, I assume it's because of the
> sulfer additive (smell) that reacts with the copper.
> tia
> --
> EA
EA-
A study by SoCal gas but no firm conclusions
www.copper.org/applications/fuelgas/pdf/south_cal_gas_final_report.pdf
and a safety brochure by another gas utlitiy
www.ameren.com/AboutUs/ADC_NaturalGasSafety.pdf
it appears that corrosion in copper caused by nat gas use may or may
not be a serious problem BUT the consensus appears to be that flared
connections are WAY more susceptible to corrosion & failure than
compression fittings
I would not use not recommend the use of copper flared fittings, I
might even go as far as removing existing flared connections.
I would definitively replace uncoated brass or copper flex lines that
service appliances with coated flex lines or SS flex lines.
I would only use back pipe or CSST tube for new work or remodel work.
Gas lines, like water lines, only need to be sized large enough to
supply the appliances served or future possible demand. A 3/4" black
pipe, depending on the run length, can deliver xx btu/hr. The short
supply line serving only the oven may be just fine for the oven
demand, with the 3/4" line acting as the "main". I have a 3/4" line
running from the meter to the kitchen...about 50'. The furnace and the
water heater are served by the same 1/2" pipe (less than 6') off the
3/4" line. The stove and a 5 ton gas A/C were served off the
continuation of the 3/4". The A/C was retired a while ago.
btw the smelly additive (mercaptan?) is added in minute amounts to
give the nature gas a consistent & recognizable smell and is supposed
to be safe, probably way safer than un-smelly gas. Sulfur does
exist naturally in natural gas mainly as H2S but the gas utilities
remove it and add the other smelly stuff. Natural gas with high
amounts of H2S in being referred to as "sour gas", those high amounts
are only 4ppm & higher. Total sulfur content is controlled as part of
their QC process.
hth
cheers
Bob
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Posted by The Daring Dufas on November 3, 2009, 8:28 pm
Existential Angst wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> Awl -
>
> I'm doing some demo on my 50's kitchen, which was done pretty well,
> overall -- 3/4 black pipe to a 6 burner stove, etc.
> Except, they tee'd off underneath for the gas line to the oven, using 1/2 or
> 5/8" copper, flare fitting.
>
> I've been told copper gets brittle with natural gas, and is therefore
> against many codes. Is this accurate? Is this a recent discovery? Seems
> odd that the original installers would use 3/4" black pipe, and then wimp
> out at the end.
>
> Are there similar restrictions with copper and propane? Other gases?
> If this restriction is only with nat gas, I assume it's because of the
> sulfer additive (smell) that reacts with the copper.
>
> tia
If I remember correctly you can't use galvanized pipe for
natural gas but I've never heard of any problems with copper
pipe and natural gas or propane here in the Southeast. The
only thing I know that you can't use copper pipe with is
ammonia refrigeration systems.
TDD
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Posted by trader4 on November 4, 2009, 9:27 am
wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> Existential Angst wrote:
> > Awl -
> > I'm =A0doing some demo on my 50's kitchen, which was done pretty well,
> > overall -- 3/4 black pipe to a 6 burner stove, etc.
> > Except, they tee'd off underneath for the gas line to the oven, using 1=
/2 or
show/hide quoted text
> > 5/8" copper, flare fitting.
> > I've been told copper gets brittle with natural gas, and is therefore
> > against many codes. =A0Is this accurate? =A0Is this a recent discovery?=
=A0Seems
show/hide quoted text
> > odd that the original installers would use 3/4" black pipe, and then wi=
> > out at the end.
> > Are there similar restrictions with copper and propane? =A0Other gases?
> > If this restriction is only with nat gas, I assume it's because of the
> > sulfer additive (smell) that reacts with the copper.
> > tia
> If I remember correctly you can't use galvanized pipe for
> natural gas
In many places in the US, galvanized pipe is now OK. Just like the
discussion with copper there was concern that with some types of nat
gas galvanized could flake off and then clog orifices. But it does
vary from area to area.
but I've never heard of any problems with copper
show/hide quoted text
> pipe and natural gas or propane here in the Southeast. The
> only thing I know that you can't use copper pipe with is
> ammonia refrigeration systems.
> TDD- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
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Posted by The Daring Dufas on November 4, 2009, 2:58 pm
trader4@optonline.net wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> wrote:
>> Existential Angst wrote:
>>> Awl -
>>> I'm doing some demo on my 50's kitchen, which was done pretty well,
>>> overall -- 3/4 black pipe to a 6 burner stove, etc.
>>> Except, they tee'd off underneath for the gas line to the oven, using 1/2 or
>>> 5/8" copper, flare fitting.
>>> I've been told copper gets brittle with natural gas, and is therefore
>>> against many codes. Is this accurate? Is this a recent discovery? Seems
>>> odd that the original installers would use 3/4" black pipe, and then wimp
>>> out at the end.
>>> Are there similar restrictions with copper and propane? Other gases?
>>> If this restriction is only with nat gas, I assume it's because of the
>>> sulfer additive (smell) that reacts with the copper.
>>> tia
>> If I remember correctly you can't use galvanized pipe for
>> natural gas
>
> In many places in the US, galvanized pipe is now OK. Just like the
> discussion with copper there was concern that with some types of nat
> gas galvanized could flake off and then clog orifices. But it does
> vary from area to area.
It's my understanding that galvanized pipe will react with natural gas
causing problems. As far as I know, it's still not code around here.
TDD
show/hide quoted text
>
> but I've never heard of any problems with copper
>> pipe and natural gas or propane here in the Southeast. The
>> only thing I know that you can't use copper pipe with is
>> ammonia refrigeration systems.
>> TDD- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>
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> I'm =A0doing some demo on my 50's kitchen, which was done pretty well,
> overall -- 3/4 black pipe to a 6 burner stove, etc.
> Except, they tee'd off underneath for the gas line to the oven, using 1/2=