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Cutler Hammer Service Panel circa 1960

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Cutler Hammer Service Panel circa 1960 John Ross 11-11-2007
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Posted by John Ross on November 11, 2007, 9:06 am
Cutler Hammer Main Service Panel circa 1960.

Is anyone familiar with these main service panels from that time?

This is a 100 amp service with breakers.

I had some receptacles grounded by running the ground wires back to
panel. I had assumed these panels just had a neutral bus and
everything was put on that since there were not that many grounds.
Indeed, on the top is a horizontal bus that is basically a round piece
of copper (like a straw), and all the neutral/ground wires (incuding
main house ground) are wrapped around the bar--no screws.

I was surprised when I saw the electrician putting the new grounds on
another bus. This one is lower in the panel (also horizontal) and
looks like a flat peg board, but this had screws for connections. I
didn't get a good look, but it didn't look like there was any wires on
it.

Now that I am thinking about this, I am wondering if the two buses are
bonded.

In the late 60s or early 70s a central AC/Heater unit was added and
they used aluminum wire for it. So now I am wondering if it is more
likely that the bus bar with the screws was original or is it more
likely it was added when they did the Air conditioning wiring? I was
distracted so I am not sure, but I did see a piece of alumium wire
around there, but not sure if it was to the breaker or to that bar.

Anyway, has anyone seen this type of Cutler Hammer panel from 1960?
What would your take on this be? IF both buses were original, would
they have been bonded even though only the top one was used? If the
second was added, would the design be such that it would be bonded via
the case of the panel?

Obviously, I am new to this stuff, but I hope I was able to describe
it, even if I didn't use the correct terms.

--
John


Posted by RBM on November 11, 2007, 11:38 am
I'm not exactly sure about your descriptions, however there was probably
only one neutral\ground buss in the panel. There should be a bonding screw
or jumper attaching the box to the buss. Sometimes it's hard to see through
all the wires. Another buss may have been added at a later date, which is
fine.



> Cutler Hammer Main Service Panel circa 1960.
>
> Is anyone familiar with these main service panels from that time?
>
> This is a 100 amp service with breakers.
>
> I had some receptacles grounded by running the ground wires back to
> panel. I had assumed these panels just had a neutral bus and
> everything was put on that since there were not that many grounds.
> Indeed, on the top is a horizontal bus that is basically a round piece
> of copper (like a straw), and all the neutral/ground wires (incuding
> main house ground) are wrapped around the bar--no screws.
>
> I was surprised when I saw the electrician putting the new grounds on
> another bus. This one is lower in the panel (also horizontal) and
> looks like a flat peg board, but this had screws for connections. I
> didn't get a good look, but it didn't look like there was any wires on
> it.
>
> Now that I am thinking about this, I am wondering if the two buses are
> bonded.
>
> In the late 60s or early 70s a central AC/Heater unit was added and
> they used aluminum wire for it. So now I am wondering if it is more
> likely that the bus bar with the screws was original or is it more
> likely it was added when they did the Air conditioning wiring? I was
> distracted so I am not sure, but I did see a piece of alumium wire
> around there, but not sure if it was to the breaker or to that bar.
>
> Anyway, has anyone seen this type of Cutler Hammer panel from 1960?
> What would your take on this be? IF both buses were original, would
> they have been bonded even though only the top one was used? If the
> second was added, would the design be such that it would be bonded via
> the case of the panel?
>
> Obviously, I am new to this stuff, but I hope I was able to describe
> it, even if I didn't use the correct terms.
>
> --
> John
>



Posted by hallerb@aol.com on November 11, 2007, 3:13 pm
have you checked ALL outlets in your home for proper grounding both
with that plug in tester AND running a 100 watt lamp between hot and
GROUND. This will tell you a LOT, about your wiring and doesnt require
disturbing ANYTHING!

Its possible for a test lamp to say fine while a 100 watt bulb will
glow dimly if at all:)


Posted by John Ross on November 12, 2007, 9:08 am


hallerb@aol.com wrote:
> have you checked ALL outlets in your home for proper grounding both
> with that plug in tester AND running a 100 watt lamp between hot and
> GROUND. This will tell you a LOT, about your wiring and doesnt require
> disturbing ANYTHING!
>
> Its possible for a test lamp to say fine while a 100 watt bulb will
> glow dimly if at all:)

The only tester I have is one of those simple plug in things with 2
amber lights and a red one, where they light up or not depending on if
there is or isn't a problem.

If I plug that into these outlets, it shows "correct" (i.e. it does
indicate a ground).

So, remember, these are connected to the bus bar that does NOT have
the main ground for house connected to it. So if the two buses are not
bonded, there would be absolutely no grounding for these receps. Would
this type of tester show no ground if the ground wire from recep went
to the panel and connected to a "ground bus" that had no connection to
ground?

I honestly don't get how these testers determine ground, and was
wondering how meaningful they were for this sort of situation.

--
John


Posted by Mark Lloyd on November 12, 2007, 6:35 pm
wrote:

>
>
>hallerb@aol.com wrote:
>> have you checked ALL outlets in your home for proper grounding both
>> with that plug in tester AND running a 100 watt lamp between hot and
>> GROUND. This will tell you a LOT, about your wiring and doesnt require
>> disturbing ANYTHING!
>>
>> Its possible for a test lamp to say fine while a 100 watt bulb will
>> glow dimly if at all:)
>
>The only tester I have is one of those simple plug in things with 2
>amber lights and a red one, where they light up or not depending on if
>there is or isn't a problem.
>
>If I plug that into these outlets, it shows "correct" (i.e. it does
>indicate a ground).
>
>So, remember, these are connected to the bus bar that does NOT have
>the main ground for house connected to it. So if the two buses are not
>bonded, there would be absolutely no grounding for these receps. Would
>this type of tester show no ground if the ground wire from recep went
>to the panel and connected to a "ground bus" that had no connection to
>ground?
>
>I honestly don't get how these testers determine ground, and was
>wondering how meaningful they were for this sort of situation.

It would have to run a little current through that ground wire. Of
course a ground that can handle a neon bulb to two might not handle a
20A ground fault.

BTW, if ground is missing the tester cannot recognize a hot/neutral
reversal.
--
43 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Never underestimate the power of stupid
people in large groups"

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