If you were Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
|
Posted by jberry on December 6, 2005, 2:45 am
I called a window guy to get a quote on something that will leak less
heat than the old single-pane windows that we have. I want dual pane,
low-e, argon filled Energy Star windows.
One of my ideas, on the non-operable (i.e. windows that don't open)
windows was to have interior storm units. It struck me that I have
plenty of space to put windows there, but he said that no, 2 inches is
not enough. All of the dual pane units made in Canada, he said, are
the same depth. I don't remember the exact figure he gave, but it was
more than 3 inches. I have that much space on the sill, but only a
touch more than 2 inches between the posts.
I'm wondering, is this provision of big frames from necessity (you
don't want the units leaking air in, because then the argon leaves and
you lose some of your insulation / noise reduction value, and risk
condensation), or from habit? Yes, I can see that it could be tricky
to devise a framing system which would keep the seal intact while the
unit was being installed (torque applied to the unit) or if it suffered
some trauma (like a ball hitting the glass, but with insufficient force
to actually break the glass), against temperature gradients, or against
differences in tension during installation.
He said there would be no problem fitting a *single pane* interior or
exterior storm in the space available. If I want dual pane, low-e,
argon filled, he says it's likely that I have to replace the wooden
sash units with vinyl.
So my subsidiary question is: is there any sense in buying "naked"
dual-pane units and making wood frames (similar to picture frames) for
them myself? I repeat that I'm asking this only about non-operable
windows. Brief idea: drill hole at bottom of existing sash (to allow
air flow against condensation) affix good quality weatherstripping on
existing windows, place new unit in frame against weatherstripping, fix
in position (low compression), and seal any leaks.
What do you think? Likely to work, or likely to fail?
--
Jonathan Berry
|
|
Posted by buffalobill on December 6, 2005, 4:27 am
your windows are the view to the great outdoors. depending on where you
live the building met a design similar to one that that required
perhaps ten percent of the size of the floorspace in a room or more to
be windows of which half of that window had to open for ventilation and
in case of fire.
screw up the windows and you screw up your own view with frost, fog,
moisture, dirt, and storm window hassles. it will be life as viewed
thru a clear vinyl garbage bag.
you could be viewing your best view through old thin rippled antique
windows that are dirt and acid rain etched and begging to be replaced.
start with the homemade idea on one window in the room where only you
will will see it daily. try it for a year.
remember you and the future owner want the sparkling new clear
insulated views of moon and stars and space station above and the
garden and swimming pool below.
|
|
Posted by m Ransley on December 6, 2005, 6:39 am
Im sure the 3" is for a rigid frame so they dont flex and have half a
chance of making it 5 years before leaking and being ruined. Look into
acrylic storms, removable, I dont know R value bet im sure its more than
single pane
|
|
Posted by calhoun on December 6, 2005, 4:45 pm
show/hide quoted text
>I called a window guy to get a quote on something that will leak less
> heat than the old single-pane windows that we have. I want dual pane,
> low-e, argon filled Energy Star windows.
> One of my ideas, on the non-operable (i.e. windows that don't open)
> windows was to have interior storm units. It struck me that I have
> plenty of space to put windows there, but he said that no, 2 inches is
> not enough. All of the dual pane units made in Canada, he said, are
> the same depth. I don't remember the exact figure he gave, but it was
> more than 3 inches. I have that much space on the sill, but only a
> touch more than 2 inches between the posts.
> I'm wondering, is this provision of big frames from necessity (you
> don't want the units leaking air in, because then the argon leaves and
> you lose some of your insulation / noise reduction value, and risk
> condensation), or from habit? Yes, I can see that it could be tricky
> to devise a framing system which would keep the seal intact while the
> unit was being installed (torque applied to the unit) or if it suffered
> some trauma (like a ball hitting the glass, but with insufficient force
> to actually break the glass), against temperature gradients, or against
> differences in tension during installation.
> He said there would be no problem fitting a *single pane* interior or
> exterior storm in the space available. If I want dual pane, low-e,
> argon filled, he says it's likely that I have to replace the wooden
> sash units with vinyl.
> So my subsidiary question is: is there any sense in buying "naked"
> dual-pane units and making wood frames (similar to picture frames) for
> them myself? I repeat that I'm asking this only about non-operable
> windows. Brief idea: drill hole at bottom of existing sash (to allow
> air flow against condensation) affix good quality weatherstripping on
> existing windows, place new unit in frame against weatherstripping, fix
> in position (low compression), and seal any leaks.
> What do you think? Likely to work, or likely to fail?
> --
> Jonathan Berry
I must be missing something. Why don't you just get energy star, low-e etc
replacement windows. Why have custom made "naked" glass panels made and then
try to fit them and worry about leaks? You can get a fixed pane replacement
unit (Installs just like a Double hung unit) and be done with it for
probably less money.
|
|
Posted by jberry on December 8, 2005, 3:24 pm
calhoun wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> >I called a window guy to get a quote on something that will leak less
> > heat than the old single-pane windows that we have. I want dual pane,
> > low-e, argon filled Energy Star windows.
> > One of my ideas, on the non-operable (i.e. windows that don't open)
> > windows was to have interior storm units. It struck me that I have
> > plenty of space to put windows there, but he said that no, 2 inches is
> > not enough. All of the dual pane units made in Canada, he said, are
> > the same depth. I don't remember the exact figure he gave, but it was
> > more than 3 inches. I have that much space on the sill, but only a
> > touch more than 2 inches between the posts.
> > I'm wondering, is this provision of big frames from necessity (you
> > don't want the units leaking air in, because then the argon leaves and
> > you lose some of your insulation / noise reduction value, and risk
> > condensation), or from habit? Yes, I can see that it could be tricky
> > to devise a framing system which would keep the seal intact while the
> > unit was being installed (torque applied to the unit) or if it suffered
> > some trauma (like a ball hitting the glass, but with insufficient force
> > to actually break the glass), against temperature gradients, or against
> > differences in tension during installation.
> > He said there would be no problem fitting a *single pane* interior or
> > exterior storm in the space available. If I want dual pane, low-e,
> > argon filled, he says it's likely that I have to replace the wooden
> > sash units with vinyl.
> > So my subsidiary question is: is there any sense in buying "naked"
> > dual-pane units and making wood frames (similar to picture frames) for
> > them myself? I repeat that I'm asking this only about non-operable
> > windows. Brief idea: drill hole at bottom of existing sash (to allow
> > air flow against condensation) affix good quality weatherstripping on
> > existing windows, place new unit in frame against weatherstripping, fix
> > in position (low compression), and seal any leaks.
> > What do you think? Likely to work, or likely to fail?
> > --
> > Jonathan Berry
> I must be missing something. Why don't you just get energy star, low-e etc
> replacement windows.
Thanks for the question, it made me examine things more closely.
Replacement windows are generally vinyl. I really dislike vinyl.
show/hide quoted text
> Why have custom made
With these window dimensions, any upgrade is "custom"
show/hide quoted text
> "naked" glass panels made and then
> try to fit them and worry about leaks?
This house was built around 1930. As far as I can tell, it still has
its original windows (75 years). The windows are not leaky (of air).
They are in pretty good shape. They are single-pane and thus toss out
too much heat. Contrast that with the lifetime of vinyl dual-pane
replacement windows. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but we're
looking at:
2 years -- cra* material and installation
5 years -- deficiency in material or installation
10 years -- excellent quality in sunny window
20 years -- excellent quality in shady window.
show/hide quoted text
>You can get a fixed pane replacement
> unit (Installs just like a Double hung unit) and be done with it for
> probably less money.
First estimate is that the naked dual-panes, not installed, would cost
about half what the framed replacement units would, installed. I think
that's a pretty good deal for the installation, I'm not complaining.
But I have no evidence that a fixed pane replacement would be less
money.
Thanks for all the comments.
--
Jonathan Berry
|
| Similar Threads | Posted | | Online Restoration Conference: Interior Storms | November 26, 2006, 6:16 pm |
| Exterior paint used in interior | February 10, 2005, 8:20 pm |
| Exterior paint on interior? | February 20, 2008, 6:42 pm |
| Difference in interior or exterior Christmas lights? | December 7, 2008, 1:11 pm |
| Use interior or exterior clear finish for window trim? | September 5, 2005, 5:56 pm |
| AC interior coils freeze; can it be due to dirty exterior condensor? | August 17, 2006, 7:22 pm |
| Can I use exterior flood lights in recessed interior lighting? | September 1, 2006, 10:19 am |
| supporting a new tile floor- plywood depth, backer board depth? | July 2, 2005, 12:12 pm |
| Are recessed medicine cabinet depth same as "nominal depth"? | February 3, 2009, 8:32 pm |
| Lightning storms trip GFCI | October 3, 2005, 7:59 am |
|
|
Yahoo! 
Google 
Windows Live 
del.icio.us 
digg 
Netscape 
XML Sitemap
> heat than the old single-pane windows that we have. I want dual pane,
> low-e, argon filled Energy Star windows.
> One of my ideas, on the non-operable (i.e. windows that don't open)
> windows was to have interior storm units. It struck me that I have
> plenty of space to put windows there, but he said that no, 2 inches is
> not enough. All of the dual pane units made in Canada, he said, are
> the same depth. I don't remember the exact figure he gave, but it was
> more than 3 inches. I have that much space on the sill, but only a
> touch more than 2 inches between the posts.
> I'm wondering, is this provision of big frames from necessity (you
> don't want the units leaking air in, because then the argon leaves and
> you lose some of your insulation / noise reduction value, and risk
> condensation), or from habit? Yes, I can see that it could be tricky
> to devise a framing system which would keep the seal intact while the
> unit was being installed (torque applied to the unit) or if it suffered
> some trauma (like a ball hitting the glass, but with insufficient force
> to actually break the glass), against temperature gradients, or against
> differences in tension during installation.
> He said there would be no problem fitting a *single pane* interior or
> exterior storm in the space available. If I want dual pane, low-e,
> argon filled, he says it's likely that I have to replace the wooden
> sash units with vinyl.
> So my subsidiary question is: is there any sense in buying "naked"
> dual-pane units and making wood frames (similar to picture frames) for
> them myself? I repeat that I'm asking this only about non-operable
> windows. Brief idea: drill hole at bottom of existing sash (to allow
> air flow against condensation) affix good quality weatherstripping on
> existing windows, place new unit in frame against weatherstripping, fix
> in position (low compression), and seal any leaks.
> What do you think? Likely to work, or likely to fail?
> --
> Jonathan Berry