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Posted by MiamiCuse on September 25, 2009, 4:47 pm
I read that you can hook a PVC pipe to a garden hose then be able to
pass that PVC pipe under a driveway. I have done that a few times and
with the sandy soil in south Florida it does not take very long. In
the past I have done that only with small diameter pipes 1/2" used for
sprinkler lines under driveways about 6' wide or so. The fact that
it's a sprinkler pipe under pressure also makes it easier because I am
not so concerned about the slope of the pipe or whether there is a
belly in between or not.
Now, the problem is more complicated. I want to pass a 2" PVC pipe
under the floor slab from a bathroom where the slab is already cut
open, 15 feet across to the location of a future kitchen island.
The fact that it is a 2" pipe makes it more complicated. The fact
that it has to be sloped property being a gravity drain pipe also
makes it more complicated, and lastly, since the opening in the bath
is along about 4' long, I have to feed 4' of pipe in each time, gluing
a new coupling.
I did this by gluing a 2" cap over the end of the pipe, then drilled a
few small openings, on the other end I glue in a 2" to 3/4" reducer,
then a 3/4" MIP to 5/8" adapter, then the garden hose. When water is
turned on, it fills the pipe then I started to push the pipe in. I
did this and it was able to get about 6 feet in and then stopped.
Does not matter what I do it will not advance.
Finally I decided to measure where the end of this 6' in and cut a
small opening in the slab and dug down, and guess what I found, a
single piece of coral rock within the sand blocking the path...the
rock is small, about the size of a computer mouse. I dug it out and
now I am ready to continue.
But before I continue, I am wondering if I may run into additional
rocks in the 9' ahead of it, and if I do, I don't want to cut an
opening in the slab every time it is stuck. Because I am using a 2"
pipe with a 2" cap, the pressure of the water coming out of the front
is fairly low. I am wondering if I should cut that cap off and glue
in a reducer from 2" to say 3/4", and close with a cap and drill a
real small hole at the end say 1/4" in size.
I am thinking being a smaller hole with a smaller diameter pipe in
front would give it a higher pressure jet in the front that may have a
better chance of dislodging any rocks should I run into any again.
But I am not sure if making it easier for a smaller 3/4" section in
the front to go through would necessarily be enough to get the bigger
2" that follows.
So the question is should I stay with the 2" cap with three nozzles or
fit in a small section of 3/4" with a smaller nozzle. I can access
the front of it from the hole I cut, but once I pushed forward and
glue in more pipe from the tail end it will be impossible to change
the head.
Thanks in advance,
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Posted by John Gilmer on September 25, 2009, 5:50 pm
show/hide quoted text
> Finally I decided to measure where the end of this 6' in and cut a
> small opening in the slab and dug down, and guess what I found, a
> single piece of coral rock within the sand blocking the path...the
> rock is small, about the size of a computer mouse. I dug it out and
> now I am ready to continue.
> But before I continue, I am wondering if I may run into additional
> rocks in the 9' ahead of it, and if I do, I don't want to cut an
> opening in the slab every time it is stuck.
Why not?
Making a small but repairable hole beats the heck out of tearing up the
whole slab.
The "access ports" will help ensure you have the proper slope.
Only problem with that approach is that you don't want to excessively
undermine the slab with your "drill water."
show/hide quoted text
> Because I am using a 2"
> pipe with a 2" cap, the pressure of the water coming out of the front
> is fairly low. I am wondering if I should cut that cap off and glue
> in a reducer from 2" to say 3/4", and close with a cap and drill a
> real small hole at the end say 1/4" in size.
> I am thinking being a smaller hole with a smaller diameter pipe in
> front would give it a higher pressure jet in the front that may have a
> better chance of dislodging any rocks should I run into any again.
Well, with "water boring" you can only dislodge a rock if you also wear away
some space for the rock to fit into. Indeed, that's a major problem with
your technique: you may well be setting up your concrete slab for failure
the next time a heavy truck come in.
Frankly, a good case could be made for "doing it right the first time" and
just cut out 8" of your slab; dig out the soil and regrade with select
material; lay the pipe in place; fill with select maerial; and patch the
slab. Once you have an opening you may want to put in a larger drain and,
perhaps, run some conduit for future use and, may, even some water pipe.
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Posted by fftt on September 25, 2009, 7:16 pm
show/hide quoted text
> > Finally I decided to measure where the end of this 6' in and cut a
> > small opening in the slab and dug down, and guess what I found, a
> > single piece of coral rock within the sand blocking the path...the
> > rock is small, about the size of a computer mouse. =A0I dug it out and
> > now I am ready to continue.
> > But before I continue, I am wondering if I may run into additional
> > rocks in the 9' ahead of it, and if I do, I don't want to cut an
> > opening in the slab every time it is stuck.
> Why not?
> Making a small but repairable hole beats the heck out of tearing up the
> whole slab.
> The "access ports" will help ensure you have the proper slope.
> Only problem with that approach is that you don't want to excessively
> undermine the slab with your "drill water."
> > Because I am using a 2"
> > pipe with a 2" cap, the pressure of the water coming out of the front
> > is fairly low. =A0I am wondering if I should cut that cap off and glue
> > in a reducer from 2" to say 3/4", and close with a cap and drill a
> > real small hole at the end say 1/4" in size.
> > I am thinking being a smaller hole with a smaller diameter pipe in
> > front would give it a higher pressure jet in the front that may have a
> > better chance of dislodging any rocks should I run into any again.
> Well, with "water boring" you can only dislodge a rock if you also wear a=
way
show/hide quoted text
> some space for the rock to fit into. =A0 Indeed, that's a major problem w=
ith
show/hide quoted text
> your technique: =A0 you may well be setting up your concrete slab for fai=
lure
show/hide quoted text
> the next time a heavy truck come in.
> Frankly, a good case could be made for "doing it right the first time" an=
> just cut out 8" of your slab; dig out the soil and regrade with select
> material; lay the pipe in place; fill with select maerial; and patch the
> slab. =A0 Once you have an opening you may want to put in a larger drain =
and,
show/hide quoted text
> perhaps, run some conduit for future use and, may, even some water pipe.
MC-
I would totally agree with John G's post. The technique used for a
pressurized small diameter pipe is a bit less forgiving for a large
diameter gravity line. Small rocks can be easily dislogded or large
rocks at can be jogged aside for a small pipe. Large rocks are a
problem for large pipes.
Undermining slabs can cause them to crack in the future but indoor
slabs are much less of a problem but can still be a problem with hard
finishes.
cheers
Bob
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Posted by MiamiCuse on October 4, 2009, 11:41 pm
show/hide quoted text
>> Finally I decided to measure where the end of this 6' in and cut a
>> small opening in the slab and dug down, and guess what I found, a
>> single piece of coral rock within the sand blocking the path...the
>> rock is small, about the size of a computer mouse. I dug it out and
>> now I am ready to continue.
>> But before I continue, I am wondering if I may run into additional
>> rocks in the 9' ahead of it, and if I do, I don't want to cut an
>> opening in the slab every time it is stuck.
> Why not?
> Making a small but repairable hole beats the heck out of tearing up the
> whole slab.
> The "access ports" will help ensure you have the proper slope.
> Only problem with that approach is that you don't want to excessively
> undermine the slab with your "drill water."
>> Because I am using a 2"
>> pipe with a 2" cap, the pressure of the water coming out of the front
>> is fairly low. I am wondering if I should cut that cap off and glue
>> in a reducer from 2" to say 3/4", and close with a cap and drill a
>> real small hole at the end say 1/4" in size.
>> I am thinking being a smaller hole with a smaller diameter pipe in
>> front would give it a higher pressure jet in the front that may have a
>> better chance of dislodging any rocks should I run into any again.
> Well, with "water boring" you can only dislodge a rock if you also wear
> away some space for the rock to fit into. Indeed, that's a major problem
> with your technique: you may well be setting up your concrete slab for
> failure the next time a heavy truck come in.
> Frankly, a good case could be made for "doing it right the first time" and
> just cut out 8" of your slab; dig out the soil and regrade with select
> material; lay the pipe in place; fill with select maerial; and patch the
> slab. Once you have an opening you may want to put in a larger drain
> and, perhaps, run some conduit for future use and, may, even some water
> pipe.
I don't want to cut the slab. To me it's more important to preserve the
monolithic nature of the slab then the compacted sand under. Majority of
the load is on the footings, it is not uncommon in our neighborhood to open
up concrete slab and see the sand already sitting an inch or two below.
If I cut a long trench I have to drill rebar dials and tie them and put
moisture barrier seal retreat with termite layer etc...plus this is going
under a hallway into the kitchen so trenching is difficult with two walls in
between.
MC
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Posted by Roger Shoaf on September 25, 2009, 6:36 pm
show/hide quoted text
> I did this by gluing a 2" cap over the end of the pipe, then drilled a
> few small openings, on the other end I glue in a 2" to 3/4" reducer,
> then a 3/4" MIP to 5/8" adapter, then the garden hose.
I am wondering if I should cut that cap off and glue
show/hide quoted text
> in a reducer from 2" to say 3/4", and close with a cap and drill a
> real small hole at the end say 1/4" in size.
First off your pressure inside the pipe is constant regardless of the
diameter of the pipe.
You have a volume restriction first where the garden hose is connected and
then where you have the holes drilled into the cap.
To increase the pressure, you need a pump.
I would continue with what you are doing to see if it works, if it does fine
but if you want to try increasing the pressure I would feed the pressure
washer hose and nozzle inside the 2 inch pipe, and then figure out a way to
mount it on the inside of the 2 inch pipe so the output would spray forward.
This way you can twist the pipe to selectivly blast the water where you
want. The dirty water then has a free flow back through the inside of the
pipe and might give some clue to what you are blasting against.
The big problem as I see it is maintaining the proper slope for the drain
pipe once you are done. Left to its own devices over time your pipe is
going to sag if nothing supports it properly. 15 feet in the blind is a
long way to go.
--
Roger Shoaf
About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.
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> small opening in the slab and dug down, and guess what I found, a
> single piece of coral rock within the sand blocking the path...the
> rock is small, about the size of a computer mouse. I dug it out and
> now I am ready to continue.
> But before I continue, I am wondering if I may run into additional
> rocks in the 9' ahead of it, and if I do, I don't want to cut an
> opening in the slab every time it is stuck.