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Electrical Arc or Short When Testing Native 12-23-2006
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Posted by Native on December 23, 2006, 12:14 am


Hello,

Installing under cabinet lights and upgrading 30yr old switches and
receptacles in the kitchen when something I've never encountered
happen.

I have a neon-tester I use to make sure there is no power before doing
any work. I'm not sure if this is the official name for it, but it's a
very convenient tool I've had for a couple years now. For example, I
can hold one metal tip to a live black wire and put the other tip to
the neutral white wire and the light at the end of the tester lights
up. Or, if there is not a white neutral wire like a single-pole switch,
I can put the other metal tip on my finger and the light just barely
lights up.

Well, when about to replace a 30 old S.P. by my kitchen sink I went to
check to see if there was power running to the switch. I grabbed my
neon-test, put one metal tipped needle on the black wire screw and
tapped my finger on the other and the light lit up slightly for a brief
second before POP! and a puff of smoke.

After I made sure I still had my eye-brows I looked and part of the
screw is melted, the side of the switch is burnt black and my beloved
neon-testers metal tip is melted.

What happen?

Well, I theorized the screw was loose on the side of the switch and
think an arc was created and it was a one time deal.

Well, I was wrong, because in the next two days, all when working on
the same wall in the kitchen (two circuits), I've had three more loud
pops and a quick burst of light when trying to test.

I thought maybe my neon-tester had gone bad, but it even happen with a
new tester.

Any comments/suggestions? I do plan on calling a certified electrician
to come check everything out b/c in my three years of doing electrical
work around the house I've never had this happen. I do though want to
learn what is happening.

Thanks!


Posted by on December 23, 2006, 2:27 am



Native wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Installing under cabinet lights and upgrading 30yr old switches and
> receptacles in the kitchen when something I've never encountered
> happen.
>
> I have a neon-tester I use to make sure there is no power before doing
> any work. I'm not sure if this is the official name for it, but it's a
> very convenient tool I've had for a couple years now. For example, I
> can hold one metal tip to a live black wire and put the other tip to
> the neutral white wire and the light at the end of the tester lights
> up. Or, if there is not a white neutral wire like a single-pole switch,
> I can put the other metal tip on my finger and the light just barely
> lights up.
>
> Well, when about to replace a 30 old S.P. by my kitchen sink I went to
> check to see if there was power running to the switch. I grabbed my
> neon-test, put one metal tipped needle on the black wire screw and
> tapped my finger on the other and the light lit up slightly for a brief
> second before POP! and a puff of smoke.
>
> After I made sure I still had my eye-brows I looked and part of the
> screw is melted, the side of the switch is burnt black and my beloved
> neon-testers metal tip is melted.
>
> What happen?
>
> Well, I theorized the screw was loose on the side of the switch and
> think an arc was created and it was a one time deal.
>
> Well, I was wrong, because in the next two days, all when working on
> the same wall in the kitchen (two circuits), I've had three more loud
> pops and a quick burst of light when trying to test.
>
> I thought maybe my neon-tester had gone bad, but it even happen with a
> new tester.
>
> Any comments/suggestions? I do plan on calling a certified electrician
> to come check everything out b/c in my three years of doing electrical
> work around the house I've never had this happen. I do though want to
> learn what is happening.
>
> Thanks!


Lets see , you connected one end of a neon to a live wire and touched
your finger to the other wire.

I would have thought that makes you the ground wire and you would be
electrocuted .

but thats just me .

I have a multimeter but also bought a non-contact voltage tester . Its
a little pen like device that beeps if the plastic end is near a live
wire.

I did have a similar incident recently , where I was using a multimeter
to check for power at a switch , touched one probe to the screw and
poof , blew the breaker .

It seems it was an old switch with a grounded metal shell and I had
accidently caused the black wire to short to ground .


Posted by George E. Cawthon on December 24, 2006, 1:12 am


marks542004@yahoo.com wrote:
> Native wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Installing under cabinet lights and upgrading 30yr old switches and
>> receptacles in the kitchen when something I've never encountered
>> happen.
>>
>> I have a neon-tester I use to make sure there is no power before doing
>> any work. I'm not sure if this is the official name for it, but it's a
>> very convenient tool I've had for a couple years now. For example, I
>> can hold one metal tip to a live black wire and put the other tip to
>> the neutral white wire and the light at the end of the tester lights
>> up. Or, if there is not a white neutral wire like a single-pole switch,
>> I can put the other metal tip on my finger and the light just barely
>> lights up.
>>
>> Well, when about to replace a 30 old S.P. by my kitchen sink I went to
>> check to see if there was power running to the switch. I grabbed my
>> neon-test, put one metal tipped needle on the black wire screw and
>> tapped my finger on the other and the light lit up slightly for a brief
>> second before POP! and a puff of smoke.
>>
>> After I made sure I still had my eye-brows I looked and part of the
>> screw is melted, the side of the switch is burnt black and my beloved
>> neon-testers metal tip is melted.
>>
>> What happen?
>>
>> Well, I theorized the screw was loose on the side of the switch and
>> think an arc was created and it was a one time deal.
>>
>> Well, I was wrong, because in the next two days, all when working on
>> the same wall in the kitchen (two circuits), I've had three more loud
>> pops and a quick burst of light when trying to test.
>>
>> I thought maybe my neon-tester had gone bad, but it even happen with a
>> new tester.
>>
>> Any comments/suggestions? I do plan on calling a certified electrician
>> to come check everything out b/c in my three years of doing electrical
>> work around the house I've never had this happen. I do though want to
>> learn what is happening.
>>
>> Thanks!
>
>
> Lets see , you connected one end of a neon to a live wire and touched
> your finger to the other wire.
>
> I would have thought that makes you the ground wire and you would be
> electrocuted .
>
> but thats just me .

That's not what he said. He said he touched one
lead of the tester to the hot wire and held the
other lead of the tester touching his hand.
That's pretty standard and will light the neon
tube. The NE-2 tube used in the standard tester
requires a very high resistance to keep from
burning out the tube; the include resistor allows
very little current to pass. Pretty much like
lighting a fluorescent tube by holding it close to
a spark plug wire of an operating engine (no shock
there either).


>
> I have a multimeter but also bought a non-contact voltage tester . Its
> a little pen like device that beeps if the plastic end is near a live
> wire.
>
> I did have a similar incident recently , where I was using a multimeter
> to check for power at a switch , touched one probe to the screw and
> poof , blew the breaker .
>
> It seems it was an old switch with a grounded metal shell and I had
> accidently caused the black wire to short to ground .
>

Posted by buffalobill on December 23, 2006, 2:42 am


[what is a S.P. ?] the spark is usually hot to common or hot to
ground. the hot could be returning from a lamp circuit or an
electrified metal outlet.
i'm not an electrician but i used a neon tester exactly as you did for
several years until i needed to chase down odd ac voltages in our 1910
wiring. your neon tester is an old friend, but let's buy a brand new
one to celebrate how it saved your behind. and a new bright headlamp,
digital multimeter, a kitchen GFI, and a GFI tester. hang the old burnt
neon tester up by the main panel to remind you how it saved you. no
more surprises. sparks can be found at old outlets, old switches, old
wire insulation, poor connections, wires improperly crowded into
electrical boxes, loose connections, wire broken free from a wire nut,
reversed polarity, electrified outlet box, defective appliance on the
circuit such as refrigerator, motorized defective appliance leaking
voltage onto wet floor. when you are working in a home where the outlet
is dead and you pulled the main breaker to off or removed the main
cartridge fuse disconnect, you'll still want your electrician holding a
flashlight and cellphone.
brush up on faq at:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/electrical-wiring/part1/
and you've earned the experience to browse next at wonderful faq for
Sci.Electronics.Repair:
http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_Repair.html
test equipment to buy including your good neon tester at:
http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/appfaq.htm#aftesteqp

Native wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Installing under cabinet lights and upgrading 30yr old switches and
> receptacles in the kitchen when something I've never encountered
> happen.
>
> I have a neon-tester I use to make sure there is no power before doing
> any work. I'm not sure if this is the official name for it, but it's a
> very convenient tool I've had for a couple years now. For example, I
> can hold one metal tip to a live black wire and put the other tip to
> the neutral white wire and the light at the end of the tester lights
> up. Or, if there is not a white neutral wire like a single-pole switch,
> I can put the other metal tip on my finger and the light just barely
> lights up.
>
> Well, when about to replace a 30 old S.P. by my kitchen sink I went to
> check to see if there was power running to the switch. I grabbed my
> neon-test, put one metal tipped needle on the black wire screw and
> tapped my finger on the other and the light lit up slightly for a brief
> second before POP! and a puff of smoke.
>
> After I made sure I still had my eye-brows I looked and part of the
> screw is melted, the side of the switch is burnt black and my beloved
> neon-testers metal tip is melted.
>
> What happen?
>
> Well, I theorized the screw was loose on the side of the switch and
> think an arc was created and it was a one time deal.
>
> Well, I was wrong, because in the next two days, all when working on
> the same wall in the kitchen (two circuits), I've had three more loud
> pops and a quick burst of light when trying to test.
>
> I thought maybe my neon-tester had gone bad, but it even happen with a
> new tester.
>
> Any comments/suggestions? I do plan on calling a certified electrician
> to come check everything out b/c in my three years of doing electrical
> work around the house I've never had this happen. I do though want to
> learn what is happening.
>
> Thanks!


Posted by RBM on December 23, 2006, 7:08 am


If the switches or outlets are still mounted in the box while you are
testing them, the screw terminals are very close to the metal edge of the
box, which is grounded. If your neon tester probe bridged the gap between
the outlet and the box, you would have exactly as you describe


> Hello,
>
> Installing under cabinet lights and upgrading 30yr old switches and
> receptacles in the kitchen when something I've never encountered
> happen.
>
> I have a neon-tester I use to make sure there is no power before doing
> any work. I'm not sure if this is the official name for it, but it's a
> very convenient tool I've had for a couple years now. For example, I
> can hold one metal tip to a live black wire and put the other tip to
> the neutral white wire and the light at the end of the tester lights
> up. Or, if there is not a white neutral wire like a single-pole switch,
> I can put the other metal tip on my finger and the light just barely
> lights up.
>
> Well, when about to replace a 30 old S.P. by my kitchen sink I went to
> check to see if there was power running to the switch. I grabbed my
> neon-test, put one metal tipped needle on the black wire screw and
> tapped my finger on the other and the light lit up slightly for a brief
> second before POP! and a puff of smoke.
>
> After I made sure I still had my eye-brows I looked and part of the
> screw is melted, the side of the switch is burnt black and my beloved
> neon-testers metal tip is melted.
>
> What happen?
>
> Well, I theorized the screw was loose on the side of the switch and
> think an arc was created and it was a one time deal.
>
> Well, I was wrong, because in the next two days, all when working on
> the same wall in the kitchen (two circuits), I've had three more loud
> pops and a quick burst of light when trying to test.
>
> I thought maybe my neon-tester had gone bad, but it even happen with a
> new tester.
>
> Any comments/suggestions? I do plan on calling a certified electrician
> to come check everything out b/c in my three years of doing electrical
> work around the house I've never had this happen. I do though want to
> learn what is happening.
>
> Thanks!
>



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