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Posted by TimR on September 21, 2009, 12:42 pm
wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> Bill wrote:
> > ALWAYS turn off the main power to the house before doing electrical wor=
> > I suggest you call an electrician.
> > "Darro" =A0wrote in message
> >> Hi,
> >> I caused a problem with an electrical circuit and would like to know
> >> whether it's a hazard until my electrician has a chance to check
> >> things out.
> >> Scenario:
> >> Two switches (a dimmer switch and a standard toggle switch
> >> --three-way, I think) in two locations control the same two hallway
> >> light fixtures.
> >> As I was pulling the toggle switch out of its metal box, one of its
> >> terminals touched the side of the box and sparked once for a fraction
> >> of a second until contact between the terminal and box was broken.
> >> The switches no longer turn on the light fixtures even though power is
> >> still being delivered to the switches. If I leave the circuit breaker
> >> on (my preference for reasons I won't go into here), would that be a
> >> hazardous thing to do, and if so, why?
> >> And if anyone has an idea of why the switches no longer turn on the
> >> lights, I'd be very interested in knowing that too.
> >> Thanks in advance for your replies,
> >> Darro
> I work on live circuits all the time. I'm still here.
> If you know how current flows you can avoid it flowing through you.
> If you are a complete idiot, shut off the breaker.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
And if you have a sudden need for the bathroom halfway through, and
wife/child/pet comes in to see the pretty wires while you're gone???
There are times when you have no choice but to work live. When you
have a choice, usually better to be 100% safe than 95%.
That's at home. At work it's a different story. OSHA applies, and
most of the time you are forbidden to work live. Zero Energy State,
Lockout Tagout, etc.
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Posted by clare on September 21, 2009, 1:28 pm
wrote:
show/hide quoted text
>wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>> > ALWAYS turn off the main power to the house before doing electrical work!
>> > I suggest you call an electrician.
>> > "Darro" wrote in message
>> >> Hi,
>> >> I caused a problem with an electrical circuit and would like to know
>> >> whether it's a hazard until my electrician has a chance to check
>> >> things out.
>> >> Scenario:
>> >> Two switches (a dimmer switch and a standard toggle switch
>> >> --three-way, I think) in two locations control the same two hallway
>> >> light fixtures.
>> >> As I was pulling the toggle switch out of its metal box, one of its
>> >> terminals touched the side of the box and sparked once for a fraction
>> >> of a second until contact between the terminal and box was broken.
>> >> The switches no longer turn on the light fixtures even though power is
>> >> still being delivered to the switches. If I leave the circuit breaker
>> >> on (my preference for reasons I won't go into here), would that be a
>> >> hazardous thing to do, and if so, why?
>> >> And if anyone has an idea of why the switches no longer turn on the
>> >> lights, I'd be very interested in knowing that too.
>> >> Thanks in advance for your replies,
>> >> Darro
>> I work on live circuits all the time. I'm still here.
>> If you know how current flows you can avoid it flowing through you.
>> If you are a complete idiot, shut off the breaker.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>And if you have a sudden need for the bathroom halfway through, and
>wife/child/pet comes in to see the pretty wires while you're gone???
>There are times when you have no choice but to work live. When you
>have a choice, usually better to be 100% safe than 95%.
>That's at home. At work it's a different story. OSHA applies, and
>most of the time you are forbidden to work live. Zero Energy State,
>Lockout Tagout, etc.
You put a wire nut on the end if you need to leave a wire live.
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Posted by TimR on September 21, 2009, 4:04 pm
On Sep 21, 1:28=A0pm, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> wrote:
> >wrote:
> >> Bill wrote:
> >> > ALWAYS turn off the main power to the house before doing electrical =
work!
show/hide quoted text
> >> > I suggest you call an electrician.
> >> > "Darro" =A0wrote in message
> >> >> Hi,
> >> >> I caused a problem with an electrical circuit and would like to kno=
> >> >> whether it's a hazard until my electrician has a chance to check
> >> >> things out.
> >> >> Scenario:
> >> >> Two switches (a dimmer switch and a standard toggle switch
> >> >> --three-way, I think) in two locations control the same two hallway
> >> >> light fixtures.
> >> >> As I was pulling the toggle switch out of its metal box, one of its
> >> >> terminals touched the side of the box and sparked once for a fracti=
> >> >> of a second until contact between the terminal and box was broken.
> >> >> The switches no longer turn on the light fixtures even though power=
is
show/hide quoted text
> >> >> still being delivered to the switches. If I leave the circuit break=
> >> >> on (my preference for reasons I won't go into here), would that be =
> >> >> hazardous thing to do, and if so, why?
> >> >> And if anyone has an idea of why the switches no longer turn on the
> >> >> lights, I'd be very interested in knowing that too.
> >> >> Thanks in advance for your replies,
> >> >> Darro
> >> I work on live circuits all the time. I'm still here.
> >> If you know how current flows you can avoid it flowing through you.
> >> If you are a complete idiot, shut off the breaker.- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >And if you have a sudden need for the bathroom halfway through, and
> >wife/child/pet comes in to see the pretty wires while you're gone???
> >There are times when you have no choice but to work live. =A0When you
> >have a choice, usually better to be 100% safe than 95%.
> >That's at home. =A0At work it's a different story. =A0OSHA applies, and
> >most of the time you are forbidden to work live. =A0Zero Energy State,
> >Lockout Tagout, etc.
> You put a wire nut on the end if you need to leave a wire live.- Hide quo=
ted text -
show/hide quoted text
> - Show quoted text -
I don't mean to offend you personally, but I'll point out something.
I've seen a lot of maintenance workers and mechanics over the years in
industrial settings.
Without exception - without exception! the ones who were sloppy about
killing the circuit power or other safety habits were also sloppy
about doing a good job. It was like carrying a sign - "check my work,
twice, 'cause it's not gonna be right the first time."
I know that's kind of biased. And you may do perfectly competent
craftsmanlike work yourself. But just as a warning, if I know you
work live when the circuit breaker is a few feet away, I and most of
my peers have concluded you're going to do a half-arsed job, and we're
not going to hire you.
It's not easy to figure out who WILL do good work. But there are some
clues as to who will NOT, and this is one of them. Sorry if it
targets you unfairly.
Of course in your own home, how you do your DIY is up to you.
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Posted by clare on September 21, 2009, 10:56 pm
wrote:
show/hide quoted text
>On Sep 21, 1:28 pm, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>> wrote:
>> >wrote:
>> >> Bill wrote:
>> >> > ALWAYS turn off the main power to the house before doing electrical work!
>> >> > I suggest you call an electrician.
>> >> > "Darro" wrote in message
>> >> >> Hi,
>> >> >> I caused a problem with an electrical circuit and would like to know
>> >> >> whether it's a hazard until my electrician has a chance to check
>> >> >> things out.
>> >> >> Scenario:
>> >> >> Two switches (a dimmer switch and a standard toggle switch
>> >> >> --three-way, I think) in two locations control the same two hallway
>> >> >> light fixtures.
>> >> >> As I was pulling the toggle switch out of its metal box, one of its
>> >> >> terminals touched the side of the box and sparked once for a fraction
>> >> >> of a second until contact between the terminal and box was broken.
>> >> >> The switches no longer turn on the light fixtures even though power is
>> >> >> still being delivered to the switches. If I leave the circuit breaker
>> >> >> on (my preference for reasons I won't go into here), would that be a
>> >> >> hazardous thing to do, and if so, why?
>> >> >> And if anyone has an idea of why the switches no longer turn on the
>> >> >> lights, I'd be very interested in knowing that too.
>> >> >> Thanks in advance for your replies,
>> >> >> Darro
>> >> I work on live circuits all the time. I'm still here.
>> >> If you know how current flows you can avoid it flowing through you.
>> >> If you are a complete idiot, shut off the breaker.- Hide quoted text -
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>> >And if you have a sudden need for the bathroom halfway through, and
>> >wife/child/pet comes in to see the pretty wires while you're gone???
>> >There are times when you have no choice but to work live. When you
>> >have a choice, usually better to be 100% safe than 95%.
>> >That's at home. At work it's a different story. OSHA applies, and
>> >most of the time you are forbidden to work live. Zero Energy State,
>> >Lockout Tagout, etc.
>> You put a wire nut on the end if you need to leave a wire live.- Hide quoted
text -
show/hide quoted text
>> - Show quoted text -
>I don't mean to offend you personally, but I'll point out something.
>I've seen a lot of maintenance workers and mechanics over the years in
>industrial settings.
>Without exception - without exception! the ones who were sloppy about
>killing the circuit power or other safety habits were also sloppy
>about doing a good job. It was like carrying a sign - "check my work,
>twice, 'cause it's not gonna be right the first time."
>I know that's kind of biased. And you may do perfectly competent
>craftsmanlike work yourself. But just as a warning, if I know you
>work live when the circuit breaker is a few feet away, I and most of
>my peers have concluded you're going to do a half-arsed job, and we're
>not going to hire you.
>It's not easy to figure out who WILL do good work. But there are some
>clues as to who will NOT, and this is one of them. Sorry if it
>targets you unfairly.
>Of course in your own home, how you do your DIY is up to you.
When the breaker is 3 floors down at the other end of the building and
the only light to work by is on the same circuit, it is safer to keep
that light on and work live than to shut the power off and try to work
holding a flashlight.
Generally on 220 volt and dedicated power circuits I DO shut off the
power.
However, when the main breaker on the cottage panel blew, friday of a
wintery long weekend, we just grabbed a new panel and breakers before
the stores closed, and changed the panel without pulling the
meter.Wives holding the flashlights, tape up the ends of the wires
pulled from the main breaker, strip out all the branch circuit wires,
yank the panel, feed the taped wires onto the top of the new panel,
connect to the main breaker, connect the circuit that lights the
basement, and shut off the flashlights. Then finish the wiring (get
the heat on PRONTO!!!,) then the rest of the cottage.
Generally with light switches I'm troubleshooting live (really no
other way to do it, particularly with 3 ways)) and when I find a bad
switch I just pull it and replace it.
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Posted by HeyBub on September 22, 2009, 7:26 am
clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> However, when the main breaker on the cottage panel blew, friday of a
> wintery long weekend, we just grabbed a new panel and breakers before
> the stores closed, and changed the panel without pulling the
> meter.Wives holding the flashlights, tape up the ends of the wires
> pulled from the main breaker, strip out all the branch circuit wires,
> yank the panel, feed the taped wires onto the top of the new panel,
> connect to the main breaker, connect the circuit that lights the
> basement, and shut off the flashlights. Then finish the wiring (get
> the heat on PRONTO!!!,) then the rest of the cottage.
I'd have called the power company and told them I was cutting the seal due
to an emergency. If they want to send a representative out to check, we'll
be in the back yard laboring in the cold and the dark and the wet.
What you did is not all that unusual. After all, what do contractors do when
they install a new meter box and have to work with the drops?
They use caution, that's what they do.
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> > ALWAYS turn off the main power to the house before doing electrical wor=
> > I suggest you call an electrician.
> > "Darro" =A0wrote in message
> >> Hi,
> >> I caused a problem with an electrical circuit and would like to know
> >> whether it's a hazard until my electrician has a chance to check
> >> things out.
> >> Scenario:
> >> Two switches (a dimmer switch and a standard toggle switch
> >> --three-way, I think) in two locations control the same two hallway
> >> light fixtures.
> >> As I was pulling the toggle switch out of its metal box, one of its
> >> terminals touched the side of the box and sparked once for a fraction
> >> of a second until contact between the terminal and box was broken.
> >> The switches no longer turn on the light fixtures even though power is
> >> still being delivered to the switches. If I leave the circuit breaker
> >> on (my preference for reasons I won't go into here), would that be a
> >> hazardous thing to do, and if so, why?
> >> And if anyone has an idea of why the switches no longer turn on the
> >> lights, I'd be very interested in knowing that too.
> >> Thanks in advance for your replies,
> >> Darro
> I work on live circuits all the time. I'm still here.
> If you know how current flows you can avoid it flowing through you.
> If you are a complete idiot, shut off the breaker.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -