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Electrical ground fault

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Electrical ground fault nj_dilettante 05-25-2006
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Posted by nj_dilettante on May 25, 2006, 5:02 pm
I have a circuit which has no power even though the breaker is on. The
power stays off for several months, then suddenly goes back on. Several
months later, it suddenly goes off. I haven't noticed any triggering
events.

The electrician I've been using tells me its a ground fault and can only be
checked when the power is on. He goes from outlet to outlet, fixture to
fixture, testing but never seems to find anything. I'm not even sure what
he's testing! I've forked over a ton of money to this guy and still have a
problem.

Does this sound reasonable, or should I be looking for another electrician?
I wish I could re-wire, but it just isn't in the budget right now!

--
nj_dilettante
in the words of the immortal Sgt Schultz:
~~ I know NOTH-THING ~~



Posted by RBM on May 25, 2006, 5:18 pm
I would try a different electrician. The cable going to this dead outlet has
to come from somewhere, and depending upon the location of the dead outlet,
such as outside or in a bathroom, it should give a clue to where to look for
the problem. It sounds like a loose connection, but the devil is finding
where



>I have a circuit which has no power even though the breaker is on. The
>power stays off for several months, then suddenly goes back on. Several
>months later, it suddenly goes off. I haven't noticed any triggering
>events.
>
> The electrician I've been using tells me its a ground fault and can only
> be checked when the power is on. He goes from outlet to outlet, fixture
> to fixture, testing but never seems to find anything. I'm not even sure
> what he's testing! I've forked over a ton of money to this guy and still
> have a problem.
>
> Does this sound reasonable, or should I be looking for another
> electrician? I wish I could re-wire, but it just isn't in the budget right
> now!
>
> --
> nj_dilettante
> in the words of the immortal Sgt Schultz:
> ~~ I know NOTH-THING ~~
>



Posted by nj_dilettante on May 25, 2006, 7:02 pm
RBM wrote:
> I would try a different electrician. The cable going to this dead
> outlet has to come from somewhere, and depending upon the location of
> the dead outlet, such as outside or in a bathroom, it should give a
> clue to where to look for the problem. It sounds like a loose
> connection, but the devil is finding where
>
>
>
>> I have a circuit which has no power even though the breaker is on. The
>> power stays off for several months, then suddenly goes back on. Several
>> months later, it suddenly goes off. I haven't noticed any
>> triggering events.
>>
>> The electrician I've been using tells me its a ground fault and can
>> only be checked when the power is on. He goes from outlet to
>> outlet, fixture to fixture, testing but never seems to find
>> anything. I'm not even sure what he's testing! I've forked over a
>> ton of money to this guy and still have a problem.
>>
>> Does this sound reasonable, or should I be looking for another
>> electrician? I wish I could re-wire, but it just isn't in the budget
>> right now!
>>
>> --
>> nj_dilettante
>> in the words of the immortal Sgt Schultz:
>> ~~ I know NOTH-THING ~~

It's not one outlet, it's an entire circuit which (unfortunately) services
PARTS of 3 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, the den, the upstairs hall, a couple of
basement lights and all of the finished attic. No GFCI on the circuit. My
house is a 200-year old monster which was re-wired - not by us - in the
1970's. I have 28 circuit breakers in the box, but almost half the house is
on this one damn line!

I really would like to know if "ground fault" is a reasonable diagnosis, and
if so, how one would go about finding the problem. I've found it difficult
to get an electrician in for this - all of them here in central NJ are too
busy with new construction to want to be bothered with a nasty problem in a
old house.



Posted by RBM on May 25, 2006, 7:31 pm
Since you have no ground fault circuit interrupters, a ground fault isn't
your problem. If the circuit breaker is tripped and won't reset, it's a
short circuit. If the circuit breaker is on and current is going through it,
you have an open circuit. This problem makes sense in an old house. When
this house was first electrified, they probably had one circuit that went to
a few locations all over the house. Over time people kept tapping that
circuit whenever they wanted to add new outlets and lights, so now you find
90% of the house is on that one circuit. What you really need to have done
is an additional line brought from your panel and feed that part of the
circuit.



> RBM wrote:
>> I would try a different electrician. The cable going to this dead
>> outlet has to come from somewhere, and depending upon the location of
>> the dead outlet, such as outside or in a bathroom, it should give a
>> clue to where to look for the problem. It sounds like a loose
>> connection, but the devil is finding where
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have a circuit which has no power even though the breaker is on. The
>>> power stays off for several months, then suddenly goes back on. Several
>>> months later, it suddenly goes off. I haven't noticed any
>>> triggering events.
>>>
>>> The electrician I've been using tells me its a ground fault and can
>>> only be checked when the power is on. He goes from outlet to
>>> outlet, fixture to fixture, testing but never seems to find
>>> anything. I'm not even sure what he's testing! I've forked over a
>>> ton of money to this guy and still have a problem.
>>>
>>> Does this sound reasonable, or should I be looking for another
>>> electrician? I wish I could re-wire, but it just isn't in the budget
>>> right now!
>>>
>>> --
>>> nj_dilettante
>>> in the words of the immortal Sgt Schultz:
>>> ~~ I know NOTH-THING ~~
>
> It's not one outlet, it's an entire circuit which (unfortunately) services
> PARTS of 3 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, the den, the upstairs hall, a couple of
> basement lights and all of the finished attic. No GFCI on the circuit.
> My house is a 200-year old monster which was re-wired - not by us - in the
> 1970's. I have 28 circuit breakers in the box, but almost half the house
> is on this one damn line!
>
> I really would like to know if "ground fault" is a reasonable diagnosis,
> and if so, how one would go about finding the problem. I've found it
> difficult to get an electrician in for this - all of them here in central
> NJ are too busy with new construction to want to be bothered with a nasty
> problem in a old house.
>



Posted by nj_dilettante on May 25, 2006, 7:45 pm
RBM wrote:
> Since you have no ground fault circuit interrupters, a ground fault
> isn't your problem. If the circuit breaker is tripped and won't
> reset, it's a short circuit. If the circuit breaker is on and current
> is going through it, you have an open circuit. This problem makes
> sense in an old house. When this house was first electrified, they
> probably had one circuit that went to a few locations all over the
> house. Over time people kept tapping that circuit whenever they
> wanted to add new outlets and lights, so now you find 90% of the
> house is on that one circuit. What you really need to have done is an
> additional line brought from your panel and feed that part of the
> circuit.
>
>
>> RBM wrote:
>>> I would try a different electrician. The cable going to this dead
>>> outlet has to come from somewhere, and depending upon the location
>>> of the dead outlet, such as outside or in a bathroom, it should
>>> give a clue to where to look for the problem. It sounds like a loose
>>> connection, but the devil is finding where
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have a circuit which has no power even though the breaker is on.
>>>> The power stays off for several months, then suddenly goes back
>>>> on. Several months later, it suddenly goes off. I haven't noticed
>>>> any triggering events.
>>>>
>>>> The electrician I've been using tells me its a ground fault and can
>>>> only be checked when the power is on. He goes from outlet to
>>>> outlet, fixture to fixture, testing but never seems to find
>>>> anything. I'm not even sure what he's testing! I've forked over a
>>>> ton of money to this guy and still have a problem.
>>>>
>>>> Does this sound reasonable, or should I be looking for another
>>>> electrician? I wish I could re-wire, but it just isn't in the
>>>> budget right now!
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> nj_dilettante
>>>> in the words of the immortal Sgt Schultz:
>>>> ~~ I know NOTH-THING ~~
>>
>> It's not one outlet, it's an entire circuit which (unfortunately)
>> services PARTS of 3 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, the den, the upstairs
>> hall, a couple of basement lights and all of the finished attic. No
>> GFCI on the circuit. My house is a 200-year old monster which was
>> re-wired - not by us - in the 1970's. I have 28 circuit breakers in
>> the box, but almost half the house is on this one damn line!
>>
>> I really would like to know if "ground fault" is a reasonable
>> diagnosis, and if so, how one would go about finding the problem. I've
>> found it difficult to get an electrician in for this - all of
>> them here in central NJ are too busy with new construction to want
>> to be bothered with a nasty problem in a old house.

The circuit breaker is on, but there is no current anywhere on the line.
One wing of the house was made into an apartment in the '40's, and this was
also on the bad line. We had that rewired to a separate panel about 10
years ago - this on/off problem only happened about 2 years ago. So load
shouldn't be a problem since we have considerably LESS drain on the circuit
now than in the past.

--
nj_dilettante
in the words of the immortal Sgt Schultz:
~~ I know NOTH-THING ~~



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