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Electrical in Old House for Low Voltage Fixture 6zbeast 11-19-2006
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Posted by RBM on November 20, 2006, 9:59 am


> That wiring is not unusual. It is proper to do it either way.

I think you misunderstood him. He's got a switched neutral, which is not
proper and dangerous




> 6zbeast wrote:
>> I was hoping somebody could help. I have installed a low voltage
>> fixture in my hallway and I can't seem to get it to work. The house
>> is old, and the wiring is always a surprise. Many light fixtures,
>> including this one, have voltage in the box even when the switch is
>> turned off (learned this the hard way with the first light I replaced
>> in the house). Seems like the power runs through the fixture down to
>> the swich, instead of the reverse. I don' t know if this would make
>> a low voltage light not work. Maybe the transformer is just
>> defective. When I turn it on, I can barely hear the transformer
>> making a slight buzz sound, but the lights don't light up. I also
>> thought it might be the track, but I've inspected it and it seems
>> okay. I've even tried reverse wiring it, still no luck.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>
> That wiring is not unusual. It is proper to do it either way.
>
> Someone needs to measure the voltage at the transformer (voltage in and
> voltage out). Remember that using a digital meter can result in measuring
> AC voltages that are really not there. For this kind of work a older
> analog meter is better. The voltage has to be measured at each connection
> until you find one that is dead.
>
> I would have to guess that if the transformer is buzzing, even a
> little, it is getting voltage. Have you checked the bulb(s)?
>
> --
> Joseph Meehan
>
> Dia 's Muire duit
>
>
>



Special 468x60
Posted by 6zbeast via HomeKB.com on November 20, 2006, 10:12 am


What is a switched neutral? I know that in the light fixture, there is a
white and black wire. The ground wire is attached to the metal box. The
white wire is always charged, even if the switch is turned off. There is
only one switch that controls that light. I know at least two other lights
in the house have the same set up (because I dumbly turned off only the
switch when I changed the first light in the house, and got shocked. Then I
bought the voltometer, and when I changed the second light learned that it
had charge as well, as an experiment and then turned off the power at the
breaker which I always do now).

RBM wrote:
>> That wiring is not unusual. It is proper to do it either way.
>
>I think you misunderstood him. He's got a switched neutral, which is not
>proper and dangerous
>
>>> I was hoping somebody could help. I have installed a low voltage
>>> fixture in my hallway and I can't seem to get it to work. The house
>[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>> I would have to guess that if the transformer is buzzing, even a
>> little, it is getting voltage. Have you checked the bulb(s)?

--
Message posted via HomeKB.com
http://www.homekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/repair/200611/1


Posted by Joseph Meehan on November 20, 2006, 10:58 am


6zbeast via HomeKB.com wrote:
> What is a switched neutral? I know that in the light fixture, there
> is a white and black wire. The ground wire is attached to the metal
> box. The white wire is always charged, even if the switch is turned
> off.

That should not be if it were properly wired and measured. However, as
I recall a white wire may be use between the fixture and a switch, but I
believe it should be one the switched side of the switch (it should not be
hot when the switch was off) and I believe it also is suppose to be marked
at each end. I would have to look it up if I were to need to wire a switch
like this.


> There is only one switch that controls that light. I know at
> least two other lights in the house have the same set up (because I
> dumbly turned off only the switch when I changed the first light in
> the house, and got shocked. Then I bought the voltometer, and when I
> changed the second light learned that it had charge as well, as an
> experiment and then turned off the power at the breaker which I
> always do now).
>
> RBM wrote:
>>> That wiring is not unusual. It is proper to do it either way.
>>
>> I think you misunderstood him. He's got a switched neutral, which is
>> not proper and dangerous
>>
>>>> I was hoping somebody could help. I have installed a low voltage
>>>> fixture in my hallway and I can't seem to get it to work. The
>>>> house
>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>> I would have to guess that if the transformer is buzzing, even a
>>> little, it is getting voltage. Have you checked the bulb(s)?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit




Posted by Mark Lloyd on November 20, 2006, 1:48 pm


On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:58:11 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"

>6zbeast via HomeKB.com wrote:
>> What is a switched neutral? I know that in the light fixture, there
>> is a white and black wire. The ground wire is attached to the metal
>> box. The white wire is always charged, even if the switch is turned
>> off.
>
> That should not be if it were properly wired and measured. However, as
>I recall a white wire may be use between the fixture and a switch, but I
>believe it should be one the switched side of the switch (it should not be
>hot when the switch was off)

White is used between the power source and the switch (always hot).
Black is used from the switch, probably so you get the correct colors
at the fixture.

I'd rather have all the wires in the switch box, rather than a switch
loop. It's more versatile.

> and I believe it also is suppose to be marked
>at each end.

It should. I expect a lot to not be marked. I've seen a lot in this
house (built around 1969). None were marked. (They also used 10/2
Romex for the 240V circuits, and didn't mark the white as red).

> I would have to look it up if I were to need to wire a switch
>like this.
>
>
>> There is only one switch that controls that light. I know at
>> least two other lights in the house have the same set up (because I
>> dumbly turned off only the switch when I changed the first light in
>> the house, and got shocked. Then I bought the voltometer, and when I
>> changed the second light learned that it had charge as well, as an
>> experiment and then turned off the power at the breaker which I
>> always do now).
>>
>> RBM wrote:
>>>> That wiring is not unusual. It is proper to do it either way.
>>>
>>> I think you misunderstood him. He's got a switched neutral, which is
>>> not proper and dangerous
>>>
>>>>> I was hoping somebody could help. I have installed a low voltage
>>>>> fixture in my hallway and I can't seem to get it to work. The
>>>>> house
>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>>> I would have to guess that if the transformer is buzzing, even a
>>>> little, it is getting voltage. Have you checked the bulb(s)?
--
35 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

Posted by Joseph Meehan on November 20, 2006, 10:47 am


RBM wrote:
>> That wiring is not unusual. It is proper to do it either way.
>
> I think you misunderstood him. He's got a switched neutral, which is
> not proper and dangerous

I must of misread. A switched neutral would be very bad. However I
can't see where he said that. If you mean "Many light fixtures, including
this one, have voltage in the box even when the switch is turned off" that
would not mean a switched neutral, it could mean the power is supplied to
the box at the light and a separate run is made from there to the switch.



>
>
>
>
>> 6zbeast wrote:
>>> I was hoping somebody could help. I have installed a low voltage
>>> fixture in my hallway and I can't seem to get it to work. The house
>>> is old, and the wiring is always a surprise. Many light fixtures,
>>> including this one, have voltage in the box even when the switch is
>>> turned off (learned this the hard way with the first light I
>>> replaced in the house). Seems like the power runs through the
>>> fixture down to the swich, instead of the reverse. I don' t know
>>> if this would make a low voltage light not work. Maybe the
>>> transformer is just defective. When I turn it on, I can barely
>>> hear the transformer making a slight buzz sound, but the lights
>>> don't light up. I also thought it might be the track, but I've
>>> inspected it and it seems okay. I've even tried reverse wiring it,
>>> still no luck. Any ideas?
>>
>> That wiring is not unusual. It is proper to do it either way.
>>
>> Someone needs to measure the voltage at the transformer (voltage
>> in and voltage out). Remember that using a digital meter can result
>> in measuring AC voltages that are really not there. For this kind
>> of work a older analog meter is better. The voltage has to be
>> measured at each connection until you find one that is dead.
>>
>> I would have to guess that if the transformer is buzzing, even a
>> little, it is getting voltage. Have you checked the bulb(s)?
>>
>> --
>> Joseph Meehan
>>
>> Dia 's Muire duit

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit




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