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Electrical problem in garage, short circuit?

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Electrical problem in garage, short circuit? Brad 08-14-2006
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Posted by Brad on August 14, 2006, 8:07 pm
Hey all, I'm having a heck of a time trying to figure out what's going
wrong with my wiring to my garage. I have a 1905 build house and a
detached garage. The panel has been upgraded to 100amps and I have
newer wiring running the length of the house to the back. There it
runs through the foundation and into conduit where it runs underground
using the grey underground rated wiring. It enters the garage and goes
to a junction box and from there is distributed thorughout the garage.

Here's what's happening. The circuit breaker tripped (20amp) and I
didn't realize it for a little. So I find it, and flip it back on.
CLICK it immediately switches off. I flick it again CLICK same thing.
Being a stubborn fool I throw it on again...VOILA! It stays on. So I
went out and flicked on my garage lights and they flickered in and out
dimly. I went ahead and turned them off and went back and thew the
breaker off.

I know the issue is not the wiring in the garage after the initial
junction box because I just rewired the whole entire thing (it needed
it) and am getting the exact same response with the new wiring.

I've tracked the wiring from the panel to the junction box at the
conduit outside the house and didn't find any apparent nicks or issues.
This leads me to believe my issue is underground between the house and
the garage. Now here comes the much awaited question...

How do I test the line to verify this??? Can I use a multimeter to do
some tests on it? I'd really like to figure this out and if it means
replacing the wire underground, so be it. Just want this resolved!

thanks!
Brad


Posted by RBM on August 14, 2006, 8:20 pm
You need to disconnect all the garage wiring at the point the direct burial
cable enters the garage, from the feed cable. Next disconnect the cable in
the house at the last accessible point before it goes underground. Now you
have one length of cable with nothing connected at either end. Use a
continuity tester and touch each wire and ground- there should be no
connection. Then test between wires- again there should be no connection. If
you get continuity between wires or from any wire to ground, you've got a
bad cable



> Hey all, I'm having a heck of a time trying to figure out what's going
> wrong with my wiring to my garage. I have a 1905 build house and a
> detached garage. The panel has been upgraded to 100amps and I have
> newer wiring running the length of the house to the back. There it
> runs through the foundation and into conduit where it runs underground
> using the grey underground rated wiring. It enters the garage and goes
> to a junction box and from there is distributed thorughout the garage.
>
> Here's what's happening. The circuit breaker tripped (20amp) and I
> didn't realize it for a little. So I find it, and flip it back on.
> CLICK it immediately switches off. I flick it again CLICK same thing.
> Being a stubborn fool I throw it on again...VOILA! It stays on. So I
> went out and flicked on my garage lights and they flickered in and out
> dimly. I went ahead and turned them off and went back and thew the
> breaker off.
>
> I know the issue is not the wiring in the garage after the initial
> junction box because I just rewired the whole entire thing (it needed
> it) and am getting the exact same response with the new wiring.
>
> I've tracked the wiring from the panel to the junction box at the
> conduit outside the house and didn't find any apparent nicks or issues.
> This leads me to believe my issue is underground between the house and
> the garage. Now here comes the much awaited question...
>
> How do I test the line to verify this??? Can I use a multimeter to do
> some tests on it? I'd really like to figure this out and if it means
> replacing the wire underground, so be it. Just want this resolved!
>
> thanks!
> Brad
>



Posted by Tony Hwang on August 15, 2006, 1:01 am
RBM wrote:
> You need to disconnect all the garage wiring at the point the direct burial
> cable enters the garage, from the feed cable. Next disconnect the cable in
> the house at the last accessible point before it goes underground. Now you
> have one length of cable with nothing connected at either end. Use a
> continuity tester and touch each wire and ground- there should be no
> connection. Then test between wires- again there should be no connection. If
> you get continuity between wires or from any wire to ground, you've got a
> bad cable
>
>
>
>
>>Hey all, I'm having a heck of a time trying to figure out what's going
>>wrong with my wiring to my garage. I have a 1905 build house and a
>>detached garage. The panel has been upgraded to 100amps and I have
>>newer wiring running the length of the house to the back. There it
>>runs through the foundation and into conduit where it runs underground
>>using the grey underground rated wiring. It enters the garage and goes
>>to a junction box and from there is distributed thorughout the garage.
>>
>>Here's what's happening. The circuit breaker tripped (20amp) and I
>>didn't realize it for a little. So I find it, and flip it back on.
>>CLICK it immediately switches off. I flick it again CLICK same thing.
>>Being a stubborn fool I throw it on again...VOILA! It stays on. So I
>>went out and flicked on my garage lights and they flickered in and out
>>dimly. I went ahead and turned them off and went back and thew the
>>breaker off.
>>
>>I know the issue is not the wiring in the garage after the initial
>>junction box because I just rewired the whole entire thing (it needed
>>it) and am getting the exact same response with the new wiring.
>>
>>I've tracked the wiring from the panel to the junction box at the
>>conduit outside the house and didn't find any apparent nicks or issues.
>>This leads me to believe my issue is underground between the house and
>>the garage. Now here comes the much awaited question...
>>
>>How do I test the line to verify this??? Can I use a multimeter to do
>>some tests on it? I'd really like to figure this out and if it means
>>replacing the wire underground, so be it. Just want this resolved!
>>
>>thanks!
>>Brad
>>
>
>
>
Hi,
You did not mention what range on the meter to use. I'd Rx10000(10K Ohm)
use to make sure there is really no shorts.

Posted by peter on August 14, 2006, 8:44 pm
> Hey all, I'm having a heck of a time trying to figure out what's going
> wrong with my wiring to my garage. I have a 1905 build house and a
> detached garage. The panel has been upgraded to 100amps and I have
> newer wiring running the length of the house to the back. There it
> runs through the foundation and into conduit where it runs underground
> using the grey underground rated wiring. It enters the garage and goes
> to a junction box and from there is distributed thorughout the garage.
>
> Here's what's happening. The circuit breaker tripped (20amp) and I
> didn't realize it for a little. So I find it, and flip it back on.
> CLICK it immediately switches off. I flick it again CLICK same thing.
> Being a stubborn fool I throw it on again...VOILA! It stays on. So I
> went out and flicked on my garage lights and they flickered in and out
> dimly. I went ahead and turned them off and went back and thew the
> breaker off.
>
> I know the issue is not the wiring in the garage after the initial
> junction box because I just rewired the whole entire thing (it needed
> it) and am getting the exact same response with the new wiring.
>
> I've tracked the wiring from the panel to the junction box at the
> conduit outside the house and didn't find any apparent nicks or issues.
> This leads me to believe my issue is underground between the house and
> the garage. Now here comes the much awaited question...
>
> How do I test the line to verify this??? Can I use a multimeter to do
> some tests on it? I'd really like to figure this out and if it means
> replacing the wire underground, so be it. Just want this resolved!

The simplest explanation is, you already figured out, a short in the cable
between the house and the garage. Possibly it is an intermittent short, that
is why sometimes the circuit break would stay on.

First disconnect everything in the garage from the junction box. Or, if you
are so confident that nothing is wrong with the wiring in the garage, then
just turn off everything in the garage.

Now, if you have an ammeter (30A range) or a clamp-type ammeter, measure the
current from the house panel going into the cable to the garage. Normally
there should be zero current because everything is disconnected (or off). If
you see current, then there is a short somewhere.

If no ammeter, use a light bulb as if it is an ammeter. If the bulb lights
up, then something is wrong.



Posted by Brad on August 14, 2006, 10:20 pm


> Now, if you have an ammeter (30A range) or a clamp-type ammeter, measure the
> current from the house panel going into the cable to the garage. Normally
> there should be zero current because everything is disconnected (or off). If
> you see current, then there is a short somewhere.
>
> If no ammeter, use a light bulb as if it is an ammeter. If the bulb lights
> up, then something is wrong.

I don't have an ampmeter and I'm not sure exactly how I would use the
lightbulb to do this. Can you expand on this for me?

You guys have been a great help so far and I am going to try all these
methods tomorrow when there is sunlight again...since I have no garage
light!!!

thanks!
Brad


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