Electrical quyestion for screenplay

Posted by 3rdrate on October 8, 2009, 4:27 pm

Hi -

I have a question about house electrical wiring. This is for a screenplay,
so I don't need the details to be specific enough to do on my own, but I'm
trying to write a scene as accurately as possible, and would love any
descriptions you could provide.

In the film, the power keeps going out in a house, with the the master
breaker switch tripping. The main characters call in an electrician.

What is the order in which he'd investigate the problem, and what sort of
equipment would we likely to see him use? Assume that at each step,
contrary to one's assumption, he does not find the problem, and has to go
onto the next step.

I.e.:
1) Checks breaker box with voltmeter. No problem there...
2) Checks outlets individually for short circuits,
Etc.

Finally, at what point would it start to get complicated?

Thanks very much in advance. I hate when films get this sort of thing
wildly wrong.

Nick

Posted by RBM on October 8, 2009, 4:44 pm

> Hi -
> I have a question about house electrical wiring. This is for a screenplay,
> so I don't need the details to be specific enough to do on my own, but I'm
> trying to write a scene as accurately as possible, and would love any
> descriptions you could provide.
> In the film, the power keeps going out in a house, with the the master
> breaker switch tripping. The main characters call in an electrician.
> What is the order in which he'd investigate the problem, and what sort of
> equipment would we likely to see him use? Assume that at each step,
> contrary to one's assumption, he does not find the problem, and has to go
> onto the next step.
> I.e.:
> 1) Checks breaker box with voltmeter. No problem there...
> 2) Checks outlets individually for short circuits,
> Etc.
> Finally, at what point would it start to get complicated?
> Thanks very much in advance. I hate when films get this sort of thing
> wildly wrong.
> Nick

The most likely reason that a main service breaker would trip, barring a
defective breaker would be an overload from the total amperage being drawn
from all the other breakers served by the main. The electrician would have
to hang an ammeter on the mains, determine that the amperage draw is greater
than the size of the main breaker, then hang the meter on individual
circuits to determine what each circuit is drawing. There probably isn't any
reason he would have to check anywhere but in the main panel.

Posted by John Grabowski on October 8, 2009, 6:23 pm

>> Hi -
>> I have a question about house electrical wiring. This is for a
>> screenplay,
>> so I don't need the details to be specific enough to do on my own, but
>> I'm
>> trying to write a scene as accurately as possible, and would love any
>> descriptions you could provide.
>> In the film, the power keeps going out in a house, with the the master
>> breaker switch tripping. The main characters call in an electrician.
>> What is the order in which he'd investigate the problem, and what sort of
>> equipment would we likely to see him use? Assume that at each step,
>> contrary to one's assumption, he does not find the problem, and has to go
>> onto the next step.
>> I.e.:
>> 1) Checks breaker box with voltmeter. No problem there...
>> 2) Checks outlets individually for short circuits,
>> Etc.
>> Finally, at what point would it start to get complicated?
>> Thanks very much in advance. I hate when films get this sort of thing
>> wildly wrong.
>> Nick

> The most likely reason that a main service breaker would trip, barring a
> defective breaker would be an overload from the total amperage being drawn
> from all the other breakers served by the main. The electrician would have
> to hang an ammeter on the mains, determine that the amperage draw is
> greater than the size of the main breaker, then hang the meter on
> individual circuits to determine what each circuit is drawing. There
> probably isn't any reason he would have to check anywhere but in the main
> panel.

*I concur with RBM, but if you want complicated there are other
possibilities. A loose connection on the main breaker could have caused it
to overheat and over time has rendered it no longer useful. The original
manufacturer is no longer in business, but used or rebuilt circuit breakers
might be available. However the house is 60 years old and it is due for a
service upgrade which could amount to a few thousand dollars.

I recently had a customer who had her 100 amp main circuit breaker trip
whenever she turned her water heater on. She lived alone in a condominium
and has a fifty gallon electric water heater. She has what is called "Time
of Day" service from the power company in which she has a cheaper rate for
electricity consumption at night and on weekends. So she turns off her
water heater for a few days at a time. Two weeks ago she flipped the water
heater breaker on and the whole house went dark. She called the power
company and they sent someone out who reset her main breaker and told her to
call an electrician.

I checked it out and found the problem very quickly. The water heater was
leaking, but not visibly. When I turned on the breaker for the water heater
I heard sizzling from the area where the feed wiring is. When I opened the
junction box there was a puddle of water and a lot of rust. When I pulled
the wires up one conductor that had been burning for some time broke off in
my hand. I told the homeowner to immediately call a plumber and tell him
that she needed a new water heater. She did and one came out later that
day.

There were some other issues there that I corrected or improved upon. The
30 amp wire for the 4500 watt water heater only had a 20 amp circuit
breaker. I changed that to a 30 amp breaker. There was no bonding jumper
across the hot and cold water pipes. I installed one. Outside of the water
heater closet was the smoke detector outlet on the ceiling because the
bedrooms were right there. There was no smoke detector installed. I put
one in. She had also asked that a switch be installed in the water heater
closet for her to turn it on and off as she pleases without having to use
the circuit breaker.

Posted by RBM on October 8, 2009, 6:39 pm

>>> Hi -
>>> I have a question about house electrical wiring. This is for a
>>> screenplay,
>>> so I don't need the details to be specific enough to do on my own, but
>>> I'm
>>> trying to write a scene as accurately as possible, and would love any
>>> descriptions you could provide.
>>> In the film, the power keeps going out in a house, with the the master
>>> breaker switch tripping. The main characters call in an electrician.
>>> What is the order in which he'd investigate the problem, and what sort
>>> of
>>> equipment would we likely to see him use? Assume that at each step,
>>> contrary to one's assumption, he does not find the problem, and has to
>>> go
>>> onto the next step.
>>> I.e.:
>>> 1) Checks breaker box with voltmeter. No problem there...
>>> 2) Checks outlets individually for short circuits,
>>> Etc.
>>> Finally, at what point would it start to get complicated?
>>> Thanks very much in advance. I hate when films get this sort of thing
>>> wildly wrong.
>>> Nick

>> The most likely reason that a main service breaker would trip, barring a
>> defective breaker would be an overload from the total amperage being
>> drawn from all the other breakers served by the main. The electrician
>> would have to hang an ammeter on the mains, determine that the amperage
>> draw is greater than the size of the main breaker, then hang the meter on
>> individual circuits to determine what each circuit is drawing. There
>> probably isn't any reason he would have to check anywhere but in the main
>> panel.

> *I concur with RBM, but if you want complicated there are other
> possibilities. A loose connection on the main breaker could have caused
> it to overheat and over time has rendered it no longer useful. The
> original manufacturer is no longer in business, but used or rebuilt
> circuit breakers might be available. However the house is 60 years old
> and it is due for a service upgrade which could amount to a few thousand
> dollars.
> I recently had a customer who had her 100 amp main circuit breaker trip
> whenever she turned her water heater on. She lived alone in a condominium
> and has a fifty gallon electric water heater. She has what is called
> "Time of Day" service from the power company in which she has a cheaper
> rate for electricity consumption at night and on weekends. So she turns
> off her water heater for a few days at a time. Two weeks ago she flipped
> the water heater breaker on and the whole house went dark. She called the
> power company and they sent someone out who reset her main breaker and
> told her to call an electrician.
> I checked it out and found the problem very quickly. The water heater was
> leaking, but not visibly. When I turned on the breaker for the water
> heater I heard sizzling from the area where the feed wiring is. When I
> opened the junction box there was a puddle of water and a lot of rust.
> When I pulled the wires up one conductor that had been burning for some
> time broke off in my hand. I told the homeowner to immediately call a
> plumber and tell him that she needed a new water heater. She did and one
> came out later that day.
> There were some other issues there that I corrected or improved upon. The
> 30 amp wire for the 4500 watt water heater only had a 20 amp circuit
> breaker. I changed that to a 30 amp breaker. There was no bonding jumper
> across the hot and cold water pipes. I installed one. Outside of the
> water heater closet was the smoke detector outlet on the ceiling because
> the bedrooms were right there. There was no smoke detector installed. I
> put one in. She had also asked that a switch be installed in the water
> heater closet for her to turn it on and off as she pleases without having
> to use the circuit breaker.

John, what was causing the 100 amp main to trip? I'm going to that same lady
on Monday. She lives alone and when she uses hot water heavily, like washing
clothes, the main 100 amp breaker trips. I was by last week to check it out,
and had her run the water, turn on the stove, etc. and after a few minutes,
the main tripped, but it was only drawing about 40 amps when it let go.
There was also a pile of bad double pole 100 amp feed through breakers lying
about the utility room, indicating to me that lots of people in this complex
have had the same problem.

Posted by John Grabowski on October 8, 2009, 8:46 pm

>>>> Hi -
>>>> I have a question about house electrical wiring. This is for a
>>>> screenplay,
>>>> so I don't need the details to be specific enough to do on my own, but
>>>> I'm
>>>> trying to write a scene as accurately as possible, and would love any
>>>> descriptions you could provide.
>>>> In the film, the power keeps going out in a house, with the the master
>>>> breaker switch tripping. The main characters call in an electrician.
>>>> What is the order in which he'd investigate the problem, and what sort
>>>> of
>>>> equipment would we likely to see him use? Assume that at each step,
>>>> contrary to one's assumption, he does not find the problem, and has to
>>>> go
>>>> onto the next step.
>>>> I.e.:
>>>> 1) Checks breaker box with voltmeter. No problem there...
>>>> 2) Checks outlets individually for short circuits,
>>>> Etc.
>>>> Finally, at what point would it start to get complicated?
>>>> Thanks very much in advance. I hate when films get this sort of thing
>>>> wildly wrong.
>>>> Nick
>>> The most likely reason that a main service breaker would trip, barring a
>>> defective breaker would be an overload from the total amperage being
>>> drawn from all the other breakers served by the main. The electrician
>>> would have to hang an ammeter on the mains, determine that the amperage
>>> draw is greater than the size of the main breaker, then hang the meter
>>> on individual circuits to determine what each circuit is drawing. There
>>> probably isn't any reason he would have to check anywhere but in the
>>> main panel.

>> *I concur with RBM, but if you want complicated there are other
>> possibilities. A loose connection on the main breaker could have caused
>> it to overheat and over time has rendered it no longer useful. The
>> original manufacturer is no longer in business, but used or rebuilt
>> circuit breakers might be available. However the house is 60 years old
>> and it is due for a service upgrade which could amount to a few thousand
>> dollars.
>> I recently had a customer who had her 100 amp main circuit breaker trip
>> whenever she turned her water heater on. She lived alone in a
>> condominium and has a fifty gallon electric water heater. She has what
>> is called "Time of Day" service from the power company in which she has a
>> cheaper rate for electricity consumption at night and on weekends. So
>> she turns off her water heater for a few days at a time. Two weeks ago
>> she flipped the water heater breaker on and the whole house went dark.
>> She called the power company and they sent someone out who reset her main
>> breaker and told her to call an electrician.
>> I checked it out and found the problem very quickly. The water heater
>> was leaking, but not visibly. When I turned on the breaker for the water
>> heater I heard sizzling from the area where the feed wiring is. When I
>> opened the junction box there was a puddle of water and a lot of rust.
>> When I pulled the wires up, one conductor that had been burning for some
>> time broke off in my hand. I told the homeowner to immediately call a
>> plumber and tell him that she needed a new water heater. She did and one
>> came out later that day.
>> There were some other issues there that I corrected or improved upon.
>> The 30 amp wire for the 4500 watt water heater only had a 20 amp circuit
>> breaker. I changed that to a 30 amp breaker. There was no bonding jumper
>> across the hot and cold water pipes. I installed one. Outside of the
>> water heater closet was the smoke detector outlet on the ceiling because
>> the bedrooms were right there. There was no smoke detector installed. I
>> put one in. She had also asked that a switch be installed in the water
>> heater closet for her to turn it on and off as she pleases without having
>> to use the circuit breaker.

> John, what was causing the 100 amp main to trip? I'm going to that same
> lady on Monday. She lives alone and when she uses hot water heavily, like
> washing clothes, the main 100 amp breaker trips. I was by last week to
> check it out, and had her run the water, turn on the stove, etc. and after
> a few minutes, the main tripped, but it was only drawing about 40 amps
> when it let go. There was also a pile of bad double pole 100 amp feed
> through breakers lying about the utility room, indicating to me that lots
> of people in this complex have had the same problem.

*Roy I didn't put a meter on the mains or the water heater circuit. I
surmised that the 20 amp breaker for the water heater was bad because it
should have been tripping all along since it was undersized for the water
heater load and it looked older than the others. I stopped by her place
when the plumber was just finishing the new water heater installation and
everything was fine and I haven't heard from her since.

It sounds as though you might have a bad main on your hands. I have one
condo community that I service that has a high rate of failure of ITE 100
amp main breakers. They are located outside and if they get shut off or
trip they won't reset. They seem to trip for no reason. I figure between
age (20 something years) and being located outside they are all ready for
replacement.

What brand of breakers are you dealing with?

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