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Posted by Nomen Niesco on October 10, 2009, 1:04 am
> > >>>>> Hi -
> > >>>>> I have a question about house electrical wiring. This is for a
> > >>>>> screenplay,
> > >>>>> so I don't need the details to be specific enough to do on my own=
, but
> > >>>>> I'm
> > >>>>> trying to write a scene as accurately as possible, and would love=
any
> > >>>>> descriptions you could provide.
> > >>>>> In the film, the power keeps going out in a house, with the the m=
aster
> > >>>>> breaker switch tripping. The main characters call in an electrici=
an.
> > >>>>> What is the order in which he'd investigate the problem, and what=
sort
> > >>>>> of
> > >>>>> equipment would we likely to see him use? Assume that at each ste=
p,
> > >>>>> contrary to one's assumption, he does not find the problem, and h=
as to
> > >>>>> go
> > >>>>> onto the next step.
> > >>>>> I.e.:
> > >>>>> 1) Checks breaker box with voltmeter. No problem there...
> > >>>>> 2) Checks outlets individually for short circuits,
> > >>>>> Etc.
> > >>>>> Finally, at what point would it start to get complicated?
> > >>>>> Thanks very much in advance. I hate when films get this sort of t=
hing
> > >>>>> wildly wrong.
> > >>>>> Nick
> > >>>> The most likely reason that a main service breaker would trip, bar=
ring
> > >>>> a defective breaker would be an overload from the total amperage b=
eing
> > >>>> drawn from all the other breakers served by the main. The electric=
ian
> > >>>> would have to hang an ammeter on the mains, determine that the amp=
erage
> > >>>> draw is greater than the size of the main breaker, then hang the m=
eter
> > >>>> on individual circuits to determine what each circuit is drawing. =
There
> > >>>> probably isn't any reason he would have to check anywhere but in t=
he
> > >>>> main panel.
> > >>> *I concur with RBM, but if you want complicated there are other
> > >>> possibilities. =A0A loose connection on the main breaker could have=
caused
> > >>> it to overheat and over time has rendered it no longer useful. =A0T=
he
> > >>> original manufacturer is no longer in business, but used or rebuilt
> > >>> circuit breakers might be available. =A0However the house is 60 yea=
rs old
> > >>> and it is due for a service upgrade which could amount to a few tho=
usand
> > >>> dollars.
> > >>> I recently had a customer who had her 100 amp main circuit breaker =
trip
> > >>> whenever she turned her water heater on. =A0She lived alone in a
> > >>> condominium and has a fifty gallon electric water heater. =A0She ha=
s what
> > >>> is called "Time of Day" service from the power company in which she=
has
> > >>> a cheaper rate for electricity consumption at night and on weekends=
. =A0So
> > >>> she turns off her water heater for a few days at a time. =A0Two wee=
ks ago
> > >>> she flipped the water heater breaker on and the whole house went da=
rk.
> > >>> She called the power company and they sent someone out who reset he=
r
> > >>> main breaker and told her to call an electrician.
> > >>> I checked it out and found the problem very quickly. =A0The water h=
eater
> > >>> was leaking, but not visibly. =A0When I turned on the breaker for t=
he
> > >>> water heater I heard sizzling from the area where the feed wiring i=
s.
> > >>> When I opened the junction box there was a puddle of water and a lo=
t of
> > >>> rust. When I pulled the wires up, one conductor that had been burni=
ng
> > >>> for some time broke off in my hand. =A0I told the homeowner to imme=
diately
> > >>> call a plumber and tell him that she needed a new water heater. =A0=
She did
> > >>> and one came out later that day.
> > >>> There were some other issues there that I corrected or improved upo=
n.
> > >>> The 30 amp wire for the 4500 watt water heater only had a 20 amp ci=
rcuit
> > >>> breaker. =A0I changed that to a 30 amp breaker. There was no bondin=
g
> > >>> jumper across the hot and cold water pipes. =A0I installed one. =A0=
Outside
> > >>> of the water heater closet was the smoke detector outlet on the cei=
ling
> > >>> because the bedrooms were right there. =A0There was no smoke detect=
or
> > >>> installed. =A0I put one in. =A0She had also asked that a switch be =
installed
> > >>> in the water heater closet for her to turn it on and off as she ple=
ases
> > >>> without having to use the circuit breaker.
> > >> John, what was causing the 100 amp main to trip? I'm going to that s=
ame
> > >> lady on Monday. She lives alone and when she uses hot water heavily,=
like
> > >> washing clothes, the main 100 amp breaker trips. I was by last week =
to
> > >> check it out, and had her run the water, turn on the stove, etc. and
> > >> after a few minutes, the main tripped, but it was only drawing about=
40
> > >> amps when it let go. There was also a pile of bad double pole 100 am=
p
> > >> feed through breakers lying about the utility room, indicating to me=
that
> > >> lots of people in this complex have had the same problem.
> > > *Roy I didn't put a meter on the mains or the water heater circuit. =
=A0I
> > > surmised that the 20 amp breaker for the water heater was bad because=
it
> > > should have been tripping all along since it was undersized for the w=
ater
> > > heater load and it looked older than the others. =A0I stopped by her =
place
> > > when the plumber was just finishing the new water heater installation=
and
> > > everything was fine and I haven't heard from her since.
> > > It sounds as though you might have a bad main on your hands. =A0I hav=
e one
> > > condo community that I service that has a high rate of failure of ITE=
100
> > > amp main breakers. =A0They are located outside and if they get shut o=
ff or
> > > trip they won't reset. They seem to trip for no reason. =A0I figure b=
etween
> > > age (20 something years) and being located outside they are all ready=
for
> > > replacement.
> > > What brand of breakers are you dealing with?
> > There were three or four bad ones laying in the utility room, each was =
a
> > different brand, but all GE, Murray, Westinghouse, universal type. This
> > utility room is semi outside and is really damp, so much so that I got =
a
> > pretty good shock touching the insulation on the main conductors. That =
may
> > account for so many breakers going bad. These are probably about thirty
> > years old.
> > - Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> I've seen older mains that just won't turn back on due to age.
Screenplay my ass!!!! Just admit it, you're trying to fix this
problem yourself, and for some psychotic/neurotic reason, your too
silly to just ask. Like it would really matter for a screenplay!!
Like some others already pointed out, big time TV show commonly have
"less than realistic" scenarios regarding things of this nature.
Christ, I bet you'd rather stab yourself in the eye with a fork than
ask for directions when you get lost, weirdo
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>>>>> I have a question about house electrical wiring. This is for a
>>>>> screenplay,
>>>>> so I don't need the details to be specific enough to do on my own, but
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> trying to write a scene as accurately as possible, and would love any
>>>>> descriptions you could provide.
>>>>> In the film, the power keeps going out in a house, with the the master
>>>>> breaker switch tripping. The main characters call in an electrician.
>>>>> What is the order in which he'd investigate the problem, and what sort
>>>>> of
>>>>> equipment would we likely to see him use? Assume that at each step,
>>>>> contrary to one's assumption, he does not find the problem, and has to
>>>>> go
>>>>> onto the next step.
>>>>> I.e.:
>>>>> 1) Checks breaker box with voltmeter. No problem there...
>>>>> 2) Checks outlets individually for short circuits,
>>>>> Etc.
>>>>> Finally, at what point would it start to get complicated?
>>>>> Thanks very much in advance. I hate when films get this sort of thing
>>>>> wildly wrong.
>>>>> Nick
>>>> The most likely reason that a main service breaker would trip, barring
>>>> a defective breaker would be an overload from the total amperage being
>>>> drawn from all the other breakers served by the main. The electrician
>>>> would have to hang an ammeter on the mains, determine that the amperage
>>>> draw is greater than the size of the main breaker, then hang the meter
>>>> on individual circuits to determine what each circuit is drawing. There
>>>> probably isn't any reason he would have to check anywhere but in the
>>>> main panel.
>>> *I concur with RBM, but if you want complicated there are other
>>> possibilities. A loose connection on the main breaker could have caused
>>> it to overheat and over time has rendered it no longer useful. The
>>> original manufacturer is no longer in business, but used or rebuilt
>>> circuit breakers might be available. However the house is 60 years old
>>> and it is due for a service upgrade which could amount to a few thousand
>>> dollars.
>>> I recently had a customer who had her 100 amp main circuit breaker trip
>>> whenever she turned her water heater on. She lived alone in a
>>> condominium and has a fifty gallon electric water heater. She has what
>>> is called "Time of Day" service from the power company in which she has
>>> a cheaper rate for electricity consumption at night and on weekends. So
>>> she turns off her water heater for a few days at a time. Two weeks ago
>>> she flipped the water heater breaker on and the whole house went dark.
>>> She called the power company and they sent someone out who reset her
>>> main breaker and told her to call an electrician.
>>> I checked it out and found the problem very quickly. The water heater
>>> was leaking, but not visibly. When I turned on the breaker for the
>>> water heater I heard sizzling from the area where the feed wiring is.
>>> When I opened the junction box there was a puddle of water and a lot of
>>> rust. When I pulled the wires up, one conductor that had been burning
>>> for some time broke off in my hand. I told the homeowner to immediately
>>> call a plumber and tell him that she needed a new water heater. She did
>>> and one came out later that day.
>>> There were some other issues there that I corrected or improved upon.
>>> The 30 amp wire for the 4500 watt water heater only had a 20 amp circuit
>>> breaker. I changed that to a 30 amp breaker. There was no bonding
>>> jumper across the hot and cold water pipes. I installed one. Outside
>>> of the water heater closet was the smoke detector outlet on the ceiling
>>> because the bedrooms were right there. There was no smoke detector
>>> installed. I put one in. She had also asked that a switch be installed
>>> in the water heater closet for her to turn it on and off as she pleases
>>> without having to use the circuit breaker.