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Electrical work and permits. BETA-32 11-07-2006
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Posted by BETA-32 on November 7, 2006, 11:24 am


I bought an old, 2-1/2-story, semi-detached home a while back as-is. It has
old wiring throughout and, due to the way it is constructed, rewiring the
entire house will not be easy (mostly because the side. front, and back
walls are all masonry). It now has 100-amp service with circuit breakers.

Here's what I am trying to figure out. Should I have the entire house
rewired now (including a new service panel, etc), or should I start out by
just having the new service panel put in (probably will be 200-amp service)
and then worry about rewiring rooms etc. later on? I do know that I will
need a permit either way.

If I have the entire house rewired, an electrician I had look at the house
said that means the whole house will have to be brought up to all of the
current codes (outlets every so many feet in the kitchen, outlets every so
many feet in bedrooms, a dedicated line to each bedroom for a window AC,
etc.). He wasn't an easy person to communicate with, so I couldn't get a
clear answer about what would happen if I just had a new electrical service
installed and keep the existing wiring throughout the house.

My concern is really not about the cost. It's about whether getting into
that entire project is going to expose me to a nightmare of regulations and
inspections.

What I am wondering is, could I just have the service panel replaced and
upgraded and basically just be exposed to the permit regulations related to
that and not be required to bring everything else in the house up to current
codes? In other words, the existing wiring would just be reconnected to the
upgrade panel. If that's how it would work, that's what I would want to do.

Is that how it typically works?

(I am in New Jersey, and I do know that in the end I will need to find out
for sure from the local building inspector, but I am hoping to get some
ideas about it from here first).



Posted by Bill on November 7, 2006, 11:46 am


You would need to bring the house *electrical* up to current codes, not the
house itself. In my area this includes adding smoke detectors on both sides
of all bedroom doors.

The work would be inspected by an electrical inspector only.

If you have the money to have this done now, I would do it now. These things
go up in cost as the years advance!

Also electrical codes are designed to protect life and property. *Your* life
and your property that is. Your electrical wiring would be pretty darn safe
if brought up to code.

The kitchen is a biggie. A lot of things in a kitchen need to be on their
own 20 amp circuit. Like microwave, refrigerator, etc. But best to do this
so circuits are not overloaded.

But the best part is outlets which work (don't need to "jiggle" the plug).
Circuits which can handle the load (circuit does not trip when trying to
vacuum, etc.). Three prong outlets everywhere. It just makes day to day
living more pleasant when your outlets work properly and circuits work
without tripping.

Some advice: I would have all outlet circuits be 20 amp. This is the best
and would not cost much more than 15 amp circuits. Things like a space
heater can easily trip a 15 amp circuit when other things are plugged in.
Also be sure to have outlets added in hallways. Makes vacuuming easier.

Might want to get three quotes from different companies. Maybe you will find
an electrician who can communicate with you better.


"BETA-32" wrote in message
>I bought an old, 2-1/2-story, semi-detached home a while back as-is. It
>has old wiring throughout and, due to the way it is constructed, rewiring
>the entire house will not be easy (mostly because the side. front, and back
>walls are all masonry). It now has 100-amp service with circuit breakers.
>
> Here's what I am trying to figure out. Should I have the entire house
> rewired now (including a new service panel, etc), or should I start out by
> just having the new service panel put in (probably will be 200-amp
> service) and then worry about rewiring rooms etc. later on? I do know
> that I will need a permit either way.
>
> If I have the entire house rewired, an electrician I had look at the house
> said that means the whole house will have to be brought up to all of the
> current codes (outlets every so many feet in the kitchen, outlets every so
> many feet in bedrooms, a dedicated line to each bedroom for a window AC,
> etc.). He wasn't an easy person to communicate with, so I couldn't get a
> clear answer about what would happen if I just had a new electrical
> service installed and keep the existing wiring throughout the house.
>
> My concern is really not about the cost. It's about whether getting into
> that entire project is going to expose me to a nightmare of regulations
> and inspections.
>
> What I am wondering is, could I just have the service panel replaced and
> upgraded and basically just be exposed to the permit regulations related
> to that and not be required to bring everything else in the house up to
> current codes? In other words, the existing wiring would just be
> reconnected to the upgrade panel. If that's how it would work, that's
> what I would want to do.
>
> Is that how it typically works?
>
> (I am in New Jersey, and I do know that in the end I will need to find out
> for sure from the local building inspector, but I am hoping to get some
> ideas about it from here first).
>



Posted by BETA-32 on November 7, 2006, 1:41 pm


> You would need to bring the house *electrical* up to current codes, not
> the house itself. In my area this includes adding smoke detectors on both
> sides of all bedroom doors.

Yes, that's what I meant to say -- the whole house up to current
*electrical* codes.

> The kitchen is a biggie. A lot of things in a kitchen need to be on their
> own 20 amp circuit. Like microwave, refrigerator, etc. But best to do this
> so circuits are not overloaded.

The electrician did say that.

> Some advice: I would have all outlet circuits be 20 amp. This is the best
> and would not cost much more than 15 amp circuits. Things like a space
> heater can easily trip a 15 amp circuit when other things are plugged in.

The electrician said that, too. I thought that made sense but I wasn't sure
if he was overdoing things since he kept going on and on about so many
things that need to be done, should be done, etc. (including cable wiring,
phone wiring, recessed lighting,....).

> Also be sure to have outlets added in hallways. Makes vacuuming easier.

Makes sense to me.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out if, for now, I can just get the new
200-amp service installed without having the whole house rewired. If so, I
would probably have the rewiring done later in stages (such as first floor
and kitchen first, etc.).

Thanks for all the good advice.



Posted by dpb on November 7, 2006, 1:55 pm


...
> Basically, I'm trying to figure out if, for now, I can just get the new
> 200-amp service installed without having the whole house rewired. ...

Here, definitely a "yes"--there, "I don't know".

Call the building permits official's office (whatever it's called in
you jurisdiction, here it's under the auspices of the "City Engineer"
and ask what is allowed/will be required.

If you're talking of a significant remodel, in actuality it would
probably be cheaper in the overall scheme of things to simply do the
whole thing in the beginning when you can with near impunity go ahead
and get the access required to do the wiring and then do the finish and
other interior work.

If the idea is (say) simply a kitchen remodel, here at least you can
get the work permit to cover that job and that's where the jurisdiction
would end. The only thing I can think of under rules here would be if
the existing wiring were discovered at the time of the inspection to be
so bad as to be unsafe to the point of them declaring the dwelling
uninhabitable, that that would be something that you'd not want to
risk, anyway.

But, the upshot is, other than the suggestions you've receieved of some
things to consider, the only answer is to contact your local officials
to find out what the rules are where you are.


Posted by Photon713 on November 7, 2006, 11:57 am


Find an electrician on the up-and-up who can answer your questions.
You are much better off by following the code and having it
inspected both for personal peace of mind and insurance
reasons. I would also investigate either full or partial AC.
I purchased a 4 level house without central air conditioning
and was able to run central AC to all rooms using attic space and
inside of closets for lower levels.

If you find an electrician willing to do the work without a permit
find someone else. In my state and county there is a page in
the local paper for stop work orders for people having work
done without permits. Make sure your electrician is licensed.

Good Luck

--
______________
lvMMMCDLXXIX+1
>I bought an old, 2-1/2-story, semi-detached home a while back as-is. It
>has old wiring throughout and, due to the way it is constructed, rewiring
>the entire house will not be easy (mostly because the side. front, and back
>walls are all masonry). It now has 100-amp service with circuit breakers.
>
> Here's what I am trying to figure out. Should I have the entire house
> rewired now (including a new service panel, etc), or should I start out by
> just having the new service panel put in (probably will be 200-amp
> service) and then worry about rewiring rooms etc. later on? I do know
> that I will need a permit either way.
>
> If I have the entire house rewired, an electrician I had look at the house
> said that means the whole house will have to be brought up to all of the
> current codes (outlets every so many feet in the kitchen, outlets every so
> many feet in bedrooms, a dedicated line to each bedroom for a window AC,
> etc.). He wasn't an easy person to communicate with, so I couldn't get a
> clear answer about what would happen if I just had a new electrical
> service installed and keep the existing wiring throughout the house.
>
> My concern is really not about the cost. It's about whether getting into
> that entire project is going to expose me to a nightmare of regulations
> and inspections.
>
> What I am wondering is, could I just have the service panel replaced and
> upgraded and basically just be exposed to the permit regulations related
> to that and not be required to bring everything else in the house up to
> current codes? In other words, the existing wiring would just be
> reconnected to the upgrade panel. If that's how it would work, that's
> what I would want to do.
>
> Is that how it typically works?
>
> (I am in New Jersey, and I do know that in the end I will need to find out
> for sure from the local building inspector, but I am hoping to get some
> ideas about it from here first).
>



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