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Federal Pacific Circuit Breaker Box with Challenger breakers???

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Federal Pacific Circuit Breaker Box with Challenger breakers??? vic 02-20-2007
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Posted by vic on February 20, 2007, 9:33 pm


Just moved into an eighteen year old condo that has a federal pacific
electric breaker panel with challenger circuit breakers.

I have an 1988 vintage GE electric combination electric range/oven
with an integrated over the range microwave.

Every time I use the electric range, its oven, and the microwave
together, the range circuit breaker in the panel box trips. This
circuitbreaker is double breaker that has 40 on its two tandem
switches which I assume is an 80 amp double breaker.

I am looking for professional opinions

Is it possible the 80 amp breaker is bad??

Would the total draw of the range its oven and the micro on at the
same time cause an 80 amp rated breaker to trip??

Thanks for your help

VIC


Posted by Speedy Jim on February 20, 2007, 9:45 pm


vic wrote:

> Just moved into an eighteen year old condo that has a federal pacific
> electric breaker panel with challenger circuit breakers.
>
> I have an 1988 vintage GE electric combination electric range/oven
> with an integrated over the range microwave.
>
> Every time I use the electric range, its oven, and the microwave
> together, the range circuit breaker in the panel box trips. This
> circuitbreaker is double breaker that has 40 on its two tandem
> switches which I assume is an 80 amp double breaker.
>
> I am looking for professional opinions
>
> Is it possible the 80 amp breaker is bad??
>
> Would the total draw of the range its oven and the micro on at the
> same time cause an 80 amp rated breaker to trip??
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> VIC
>

I wouldn't just assume that the appliances are in fact overloading the
breaker and tripping it.

One of the ways that a breaker can trip is from higher than normal
temperatures in the breaker itself. And THAT can happen if the
breaker "stab" connections have high resistance. And *that* type
of failure at the stab is a hallmark of the FPE design.

In my opinion, a double 40Amp (thin) in one of those panels
is simply asking for trouble.

How will you find out? With an Amprobe clamp-on meter,
measure the actual current draw. If it's below the rating,
then you can assume the breaker/panel is at fault.

Plan "B": Open the piggy bank to have a new panel installed.

Jim

Posted by Nate Nagel on February 20, 2007, 9:48 pm


vic wrote:
> Just moved into an eighteen year old condo that has a federal pacific
> electric breaker panel with challenger circuit breakers.
>
> I have an 1988 vintage GE electric combination electric range/oven
> with an integrated over the range microwave.
>
> Every time I use the electric range, its oven, and the microwave
> together, the range circuit breaker in the panel box trips. This
> circuitbreaker is double breaker that has 40 on its two tandem
> switches which I assume is an 80 amp double breaker.
>
> I am looking for professional opinions
>
> Is it possible the 80 amp breaker is bad??
>
> Would the total draw of the range its oven and the micro on at the
> same time cause an 80 amp rated breaker to trip??
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> VIC
>

It's a 40 amp double pole breaker, for 240V service. A single breaker
only provides one phase of 120V. (240V is provided by having two 120V
phases 180 degrees out.)

What is the maximum current rating on the range unit? (I can't tell
from your description, but it sounds like the microwave is actually part
of the whole deal?) If it's over 40A, then you likely need to upgrade
the service to the range to 50A or so. Unless you can determine that
the existing wire is suitable for 50A you're probably looking at having
new wire run.

DO NOT just replace the breaker with a higher rated one.

If the microwave is a separate unit, it should not be sharing a circuit
with the range. It probably needs a 15A or 20A 120V circuit of its own.

Additionally, I've heard bad things about FPE equipment. Not sure if
the panelboards themselves were shitty, but you should feel lucky that
you don't have FPE breakers.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Posted by BobK207 on February 20, 2007, 10:32 pm


> Just moved into an eighteen year old condo that has a federal pacific
> electric breaker panel with challenger circuit breakers.
>
> I have an 1988 vintage GE electric combination electric range/oven
> with an integrated over the range microwave.
>
> Every time I use the electric range, its oven, and the microwave
> together, the range circuit breaker in the panel box trips. This
> circuitbreaker is double breaker that has 40 on its two tandem
> switches which I assume is an 80 amp double breaker.
>
> I am looking for professional opinions
>
> Is it possible the 80 amp breaker is bad??
>
> Would the total draw of the range its oven and the micro on at the
> same time cause an 80 amp rated breaker to trip??
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> VIC

It is a 40 amp breaker, it's probably bad.

You'll probably get all sorts of warnings of dire consequences if you
don't immediately replace the panel.

Well, I've lived in two houses that both had Federal panels. If fact,
in the area there are 100's of homes with Federal panels.

I've never experienced any problems with my panels or heard of any
problems in the area. Of course, this is purely anecdotal evidence
so, what's it worth?

I bought enough new breakers to replace the mis-behaving ones in the
two houses mentioned above

I bought them on ebay from this guy

http://stores.ebay.com/Sparkys-Place

        NEW PUSHMATIC ITE Bulldog 2 Pole BREAKER 40 Amp P240
        Item number: 150066580169        ~$60 + shipping



He has well functioning used ones & "new old stock" ones......I bought
new ones the replace any balky breakers AND any breakers more than 15
years old. The new ones worked great, crisp on/off function, not the
sloppy on/off behavior of the 45 year old ones.

His used ones are ~$25 + shipping




cheers
Bob


Posted by Doug on February 21, 2007, 2:06 am



>> Just moved into an eighteen year old condo that has a federal pacific
>> electric breaker panel with challenger circuit breakers.
>>
>> I have an 1988 vintage GE electric combination electric range/oven
>> with an integrated over the range microwave.
>>
>> Every time I use the electric range, its oven, and the microwave
>> together, the range circuit breaker in the panel box trips. This
>> circuitbreaker is double breaker that has 40 on its two tandem
>> switches which I assume is an 80 amp double breaker.
>>
>> I am looking for professional opinions
>>
>> Is it possible the 80 amp breaker is bad??
>>
>> Would the total draw of the range its oven and the micro on at the
>> same time cause an 80 amp rated breaker to trip??
>>
>> Thanks for your help
>>
>> VIC
>
>It is a 40 amp breaker, it's probably bad.
>
>You'll probably get all sorts of warnings of dire consequences if you
>don't immediately replace the panel.
>
>Well, I've lived in two houses that both had Federal panels. If fact,
>in the area there are 100's of homes with Federal panels.
>
>I've never experienced any problems with my panels or heard of any
>problems in the area. Of course, this is purely anecdotal evidence
>so, what's it worth?
>
>I bought enough new breakers to replace the mis-behaving ones in the
>two houses mentioned above
>
>I bought them on ebay from this guy
>
>http://stores.ebay.com/Sparkys-Place
>
>        NEW PUSHMATIC ITE Bulldog 2 Pole BREAKER 40 Amp P240
>        Item number: 150066580169        ~$60 + shipping
>
>
>
>He has well functioning used ones & "new old stock" ones......I bought
>new ones the replace any balky breakers AND any breakers more than 15
>years old. The new ones worked great, crisp on/off function, not the
>sloppy on/off behavior of the 45 year old ones.
>
>His used ones are ~$25 + shipping
>
>
>
>
>cheers
>Bob

Well, you've got me puzzled with the above advice.

ITE/Bulldog Pushmatic breakers are NOT the same as FPE breakers.

They are weird bushbutton activated breakers used in panels originally
made by the "Bulldog Electric Corp".
They have bolted on connections, not the same as the FPE stab lock
connections. ITE later bought out Bulldog Electric.

I've got two places that still use them.

Doug

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