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Federal Pacific Circuit Breaker Box with Challenger breakers???

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Federal Pacific Circuit Breaker Box with Challenger breakers??? vic 02-20-2007
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Posted by BobK207 on February 21, 2007, 1:09 pm


>
>
>
> >> Just moved into an eighteen year old condo that has a federal pacific
> >> electric breaker panel with challenger circuit breakers.
>
> >> I have an 1988 vintage GE electric combination electric range/oven
> >> with an integrated over the range microwave.
>
> >> Every time I use the electric range, its oven, and the microwave
> >> together, the range circuit breaker in the panel box trips. This
> >> circuitbreaker is double breaker that has 40 on its two tandem
> >> switches which I assume is an 80 amp double breaker.
>
> >> I am looking for professional opinions
>
> >> Is it possible the 80 amp breaker is bad??
>
> >> Would the total draw of the range its oven and the micro on at the
> >> same time cause an 80 amp rated breaker to trip??
>
> >> Thanks for your help
>
> >> VIC
>
> >It is a 40 amp breaker, it's probably bad.
>
> >You'll probably get all sorts of warnings of dire consequences if you
> >don't immediately replace the panel.
>
> >Well, I've lived in two houses that both had Federal panels. If fact,
> >in the area there are 100's of homes with Federal panels.
>
> >I've never experienced any problems with my panels or heard of any
> >problems in the area. Of course, this is purely anecdotal evidence
> >so, what's it worth?
>
> >I bought enough new breakers to replace the mis-behaving ones in the
> >two houses mentioned above
>
> >I bought them on ebay from this guy
>
> >http://stores.ebay.com/Sparkys-Place
>
> > NEW PUSHMATIC ITE Bulldog 2 Pole BREAKER 40 Amp P240
> > Item number: 150066580169 ~$60 + shipping
>
> >He has well functioning used ones & "new old stock" ones......I bought
> >new ones the replace any balky breakers AND any breakers more than 15
> >years old. The new ones worked great, crisp on/off function, not the
> >sloppy on/off behavior of the 45 year old ones.
>
> >His used ones are ~$25 + shipping
>
> >cheers
> >Bob
>
> Well, you've got me puzzled with the above advice.
>
> ITE/Bulldog Pushmatic breakers are NOT the same as FPE breakers.
>
> They are weird bushbutton activated breakers used in panels originally
> made by the "Bulldog Electric Corp".
> They have bolted on connections, not the same as the FPE stab lock
> connections. ITE later bought out Bulldog Electric.
>
> I've got two places that still use them.
>
> Doug

Doug-

Good point....... I may have given bad advice.

Could you explain further, my experience is with Bulldog Pushmatic
breakers / panels installed in the late 50's / early 60's in area
where I grew up.

The breaker / panels I'm thinking of have small screws (~10-24?) that
attach the breakers to the bus.

These breakers are cycled on/off by pushing on the face of the
breaker. The breakers have little "windows" that display a white
"on" & a black "off" label when cycled.

The mis-behavior is failure to crisply cycle on/off and the labels
sometimes fail to cycle as well.

Are Bulldog Pushmatic breakers / panels the ones that people worry
about or is it the later ones?

I have found that the Bulldog Pushmatic breakers work fine when new
(less than 20 years old) but a little balky when older.

So Doug, is what you're saying is the Bulldog Pushmatic breakers /
panels are more or less ok but the FPE breakers / panels are the
troublesome ones?

cheers
Bob

btw >>>>They are weird bushbutton activated breakers<<<<<

they're not weird, they are totally "space age", a product of their
time :)


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Posted by Speedy Jim on February 21, 2007, 1:17 pm


BobK207 wrote:

<SNIP>

> Are Bulldog Pushmatic breakers / panels the ones that people worry
> about or is it the later ones?
>
> I have found that the Bulldog Pushmatic breakers work fine when new
> (less than 20 years old) but a little balky when older.
>
> So Doug, is what you're saying is the Bulldog Pushmatic breakers /
> panels are more or less ok but the FPE breakers / panels are the
> troublesome ones?
>
> cheers
> Bob
>
> btw >>>>They are weird bushbutton activated breakers<<<<<
>
> they're not weird, they are totally "space age", a product of their
> time :)
>

Although Pushmatics do experience aging problems, they are not
the ones with the long history of serious problems:

http://www.arson-codes.com/webpages/reportsarticles.asp

http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm

Jim

Posted by BobK207 on February 21, 2007, 3:07 pm


> BobK207 wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>
>
> > Are Bulldog Pushmatic breakers / panels the ones that people worry
> > about or is it the later ones?
>
> > I have found that the Bulldog Pushmatic breakers work fine when new
> > (less than 20 years old) but a little balky when older.
>
> > So Doug, is what you're saying is the Bulldog Pushmatic breakers /
> > panels are more or less ok but the FPE breakers / panels are the
> > troublesome ones?
>
> > cheers
> > Bob
>
> > btw >>>>They are weird bushbutton activated breakers<<<<<
>
> > they're not weird, they are totally "space age", a product of their
> > time :)
>
> Although Pushmatics do experience aging problems, they are not
> the ones with the long history of serious problems:
>
> http://www.arson-codes.com/webpages/reportsarticles.asp
>
> http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm
>
> Jim

Jim-

Thanks for that clarification

cheers
Bob


Posted by Dave Martindale on February 20, 2007, 11:47 pm


>Just moved into an eighteen year old condo that has a federal pacific
>electric breaker panel with challenger circuit breakers.

>I have an 1988 vintage GE electric combination electric range/oven
>with an integrated over the range microwave.

>Every time I use the electric range, its oven, and the microwave
>together, the range circuit breaker in the panel box trips. This
>circuitbreaker is double breaker that has 40 on its two tandem
>switches which I assume is an 80 amp double breaker.

>I am looking for professional opinions

>Is it possible the 80 amp breaker is bad??

>Would the total draw of the range its oven and the micro on at the
>same time cause an 80 amp rated breaker to trip??

That's a 40 amp 240 V circuit breaker. It has two poles in order to
monitor both sides of the circuit and so both sides of the circuit get
disconnected when it is tripped or shut off, but it passes only 40 A.

40 A is normal for a stove circuit, so you might just have a bad
breaker. It happens.

On the other hand, most stoves do not have a built-in microwave oven,
and in most kitchens the microwave is either plugged into a counter
outlet, or it may be part of the range hood - either way it's on a
different circuit from the stove. So it is possible that this
particular stove needs a larger circuit if you're going to use
range/oven/microwave all at the same time. GE doesn't seem to make that
style of combination unit any more, so I can't see what one is rated to
draw. Check for a nameplate somewhere on the stove.

The best way to tell whether the breaker is bad or whether it really
should be tripping is with a clamp-on AC ammmeter around one of the
wires (but not both!) leaving the breaker in the panel.

By the way, our house was built in 1989, has a FP panel, and everything
seems to be fine (except that a previous owner put a 20 A breaker on a
15 amp circuit).

        Dave

Posted by Lou on February 21, 2007, 6:42 am


vic wrote:
> Just moved into an eighteen year old condo that has a federal pacific
> electric breaker panel with challenger circuit breakers.
>
> I have an 1988 vintage GE electric combination electric range/oven
> with an integrated over the range microwave.
>
> Every time I use the electric range, its oven, and the microwave
> together, the range circuit breaker in the panel box trips. This
> circuitbreaker is double breaker that has 40 on its two tandem
> switches which I assume is an 80 amp double breaker.
>
> I am looking for professional opinions
>
> Is it possible the 80 amp breaker is bad??
>
> Would the total draw of the range its oven and the micro on at the
> same time cause an 80 amp rated breaker to trip??
>
> Thanks for your help
>
> VIC
>
Others have covered this pretty well BUT...
I just went through the exact same scenario and found it was the "stab"
which sticks up from the main bar in the breaker box, and sends juice
into the breaker was badly burnt - had all kinds of crud burnt onto it.
Had to replace the breaker (obviously part of the problem) AND had to
file the burnt crap off of the stab. Very important as otherwise the
contact will remain poor and the thing will fail again shortly. Also, I
could not find an exact replacement for the breaker and wound up getting
a quad breaker (40/30). Was lucky in that I had space. My house was
built in 1990. Remember to turn off main power before messing in there!!!

Lou

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