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Few very basic Electrical questions SMF 06-15-2006
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Posted by ameijers on June 17, 2006, 4:44 pm

>
(snip)
> > >
> > That's like opening the breaker before unplugging your iron. But if you
> > need to do it, there is certainly no harm, other than having to reset
every
> > electronic device in the house.
>
> It only gets worse. First, you claimed to a newbie concerned about
> safety that most people would not turn off the main breaker when
> replacing a breaker. I believe that is bogus, as most people, myself
> included would. And now you suggesting that replacing breakers
> without turning off the power is comparable to unplugging an iron?
>
Yeah, but the iron won't KILL you if you absent-mindedly reach for something
in the box to push against, whilst getting the old breaker to come off the
rail. OF COURSE you turn the main breaker off, and keep in mind the panel
often still has exposed hots at the top when you do this. Yeah, resetting
all the clocks and stuff is the house is a PITA, but they don't call it good
workmanlike practices for nothing. I'm no electrician, but working as a
general construction gofer as a kid, I had the safety stuff pretty well beat
into me.

Having said all that- it ain't rocket science, but since OP has clearly
never done this before, I <strongly> recommend they pay somebody to walk
them through it the first time. Local ad paper often has semi-retired
licensed electricians who do little jobs like this pretty cheap, especially
if you pay them in cash. At an absolute minimum, OP, should buy one of the
DIY books about home wiring and read it, if he hasn't already. Remember,
safety rules usually come to be because some cowboy hot dog tried to do
something the quick way, and fried himself.

aem sends...


Posted by Pete C. on June 17, 2006, 11:19 am
trader4@optonline.net wrote:
>
> Toller wrote:
> > >
> > > Toller wrote:
> > >> > Hi,
> > >> >
> > >> > I bought a book plus spent a number of hours on the computer to
> > >> > research and I hope someone can help me with just a few very basic
> > >> > questions I still have:
> > >> >
> > >> > 1. I have a 100 amp service. If I turn off the main circuit breaker
> > >> > can I change for instance a 20 amp breaker without worry of shock if I
> > >> > don't touch anything else other than the breaker and the wire that
> > >> > needs to be unscrewed? (I have a few that don't match my GE panel and
> > >> > I heard that they should)
> > >> >
> > >> Most people don't even bother to do that, but yes; the box should be dead
> > >> if
> > >> the main breaker is open. Never touch a potentially live wire without
> > >> testing it first!
> > >
> > > You're suggesting that most people replace breakers without turning off
> > > the main breaker? Not only is that irresponsible to suggest to the
> > > OP, who clearly identified himself as a novice, but on what basis do
> > > you even make the claim that most people do it?
> > >
> > English must be a second language for one of us; I don't see where I
> > recommended that.
> > I have no hard statistics, but I haven't spoken to anyone who turns off the
> > main breaker so I expect it is the common practice.
>
> Well, now you have. IMO, anyone who fiddles around with circuit
> breakers without turning off the main breaker is an idiot. I always
> turn it off. And I seriously doubt that most people don't turn off
> the main breaker.

Well, you're seriously wrong. I've done my own electrical work for years
and have worked on electrical projects with numerous other people, both
residential and commercial and I've yet to run into anyone who shuts off
the main when changing branch circuit breakers, including removing /
installing bolt on breakers (Insulated nut driver and gloves of course).
The snap in breakers that are the norm in residential and many
commercial installations are specifically designed to be easy to remove
and install on a live bus.

Pete C.

Posted by on June 17, 2006, 1:06 pm

Pete C. wrote:
> trader4@optonline.net wrote:
> >
> > Toller wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Toller wrote:
> > > >> > Hi,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I bought a book plus spent a number of hours on the computer to
> > > >> > research and I hope someone can help me with just a few very basic
> > > >> > questions I still have:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 1. I have a 100 amp service. If I turn off the main circuit breaker
> > > >> > can I change for instance a 20 amp breaker without worry of shock if I
> > > >> > don't touch anything else other than the breaker and the wire that
> > > >> > needs to be unscrewed? (I have a few that don't match my GE panel and
> > > >> > I heard that they should)
> > > >> >
> > > >> Most people don't even bother to do that, but yes; the box should be
dead
> > > >> if
> > > >> the main breaker is open. Never touch a potentially live wire without
> > > >> testing it first!
> > > >
> > > > You're suggesting that most people replace breakers without turning off
> > > > the main breaker? Not only is that irresponsible to suggest to the
> > > > OP, who clearly identified himself as a novice, but on what basis do
> > > > you even make the claim that most people do it?
> > > >
> > > English must be a second language for one of us; I don't see where I
> > > recommended that.
> > > I have no hard statistics, but I haven't spoken to anyone who turns off the
> > > main breaker so I expect it is the common practice.
> >
> > Well, now you have. IMO, anyone who fiddles around with circuit
> > breakers without turning off the main breaker is an idiot. I always
> > turn it off. And I seriously doubt that most people don't turn off
> > the main breaker.
>
> Well, you're seriously wrong. I've done my own electrical work for years
> and have worked on electrical projects with numerous other people, both
> residential and commercial and I've yet to run into anyone who shuts off
> the main when changing branch circuit breakers, including removing /
> installing bolt on breakers (Insulated nut driver and gloves of course).
> The snap in breakers that are the norm in residential and many
> commercial installations are specifically designed to be easy to remove
> and install on a live bus.
>
> Pete C.


Well, the OP, who's an obvious novice, doesn't have to listen to any of
us. He can just do a simple google search for "replacing circuit
breaker". There are plenty of websites with info. He can see what
they recommend doing. And I'm sure he'll find that virtually every one
of them has turning off the main breaker as the first step. Then he
can decide what he thinks most people would do and make his own choice.


Posted by Pete C. on June 17, 2006, 3:00 pm
trader4@optonline.net wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
> > trader4@optonline.net wrote:
> > >
> > > Toller wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Toller wrote:
> > > > >> > Hi,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I bought a book plus spent a number of hours on the computer to
> > > > >> > research and I hope someone can help me with just a few very basic
> > > > >> > questions I still have:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > 1. I have a 100 amp service. If I turn off the main circuit
breaker
> > > > >> > can I change for instance a 20 amp breaker without worry of shock
if I
> > > > >> > don't touch anything else other than the breaker and the wire that
> > > > >> > needs to be unscrewed? (I have a few that don't match my GE panel
and
> > > > >> > I heard that they should)
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> Most people don't even bother to do that, but yes; the box should be
dead
> > > > >> if
> > > > >> the main breaker is open. Never touch a potentially live wire without
> > > > >> testing it first!
> > > > >
> > > > > You're suggesting that most people replace breakers without turning off
> > > > > the main breaker? Not only is that irresponsible to suggest to the
> > > > > OP, who clearly identified himself as a novice, but on what basis do
> > > > > you even make the claim that most people do it?
> > > > >
> > > > English must be a second language for one of us; I don't see where I
> > > > recommended that.
> > > > I have no hard statistics, but I haven't spoken to anyone who turns off
the
> > > > main breaker so I expect it is the common practice.
> > >
> > > Well, now you have. IMO, anyone who fiddles around with circuit
> > > breakers without turning off the main breaker is an idiot. I always
> > > turn it off. And I seriously doubt that most people don't turn off
> > > the main breaker.
> >
> > Well, you're seriously wrong. I've done my own electrical work for years
> > and have worked on electrical projects with numerous other people, both
> > residential and commercial and I've yet to run into anyone who shuts off
> > the main when changing branch circuit breakers, including removing /
> > installing bolt on breakers (Insulated nut driver and gloves of course).
> > The snap in breakers that are the norm in residential and many
> > commercial installations are specifically designed to be easy to remove
> > and install on a live bus.
> >
> > Pete C.
>
> Well, the OP, who's an obvious novice, doesn't have to listen to any of
> us. He can just do a simple google search for "replacing circuit
> breaker". There are plenty of websites with info. He can see what
> they recommend doing. And I'm sure he'll find that virtually every one
> of them has turning off the main breaker as the first step. Then he
> can decide what he thinks most people would do and make his own choice.

That wasn't the point, my response was to you very incorrect "And I
seriously doubt that most people don't turn off the main breaker". I
have no doubt that any DIY home wiring book or online equivalent has a
lawyer mandated "turn off the main breaker" warning regardless of the
validity of such. I seriously doubt any lawyer has ever changed a
circuit breaker either.

Pete C.

Posted by on June 17, 2006, 3:55 pm

Pete C. wrote:
> trader4@optonline.net wrote:
> >
> > Pete C. wrote:
> > > trader4@optonline.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Toller wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Toller wrote:
> > > > > >> > Hi,
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I bought a book plus spent a number of hours on the computer to
> > > > > >> > research and I hope someone can help me with just a few very basic
> > > > > >> > questions I still have:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > 1. I have a 100 amp service. If I turn off the main circuit
breaker
> > > > > >> > can I change for instance a 20 amp breaker without worry of shock
if I
> > > > > >> > don't touch anything else other than the breaker and the wire that
> > > > > >> > needs to be unscrewed? (I have a few that don't match my GE
panel and
> > > > > >> > I heard that they should)
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> Most people don't even bother to do that, but yes; the box should
be dead
> > > > > >> if
> > > > > >> the main breaker is open. Never touch a potentially live wire
without
> > > > > >> testing it first!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You're suggesting that most people replace breakers without turning
off
> > > > > > the main breaker? Not only is that irresponsible to suggest to
the
> > > > > > OP, who clearly identified himself as a novice, but on what basis do
> > > > > > you even make the claim that most people do it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > English must be a second language for one of us; I don't see where I
> > > > > recommended that.
> > > > > I have no hard statistics, but I haven't spoken to anyone who turns
off the
> > > > > main breaker so I expect it is the common practice.
> > > >
> > > > Well, now you have. IMO, anyone who fiddles around with circuit
> > > > breakers without turning off the main breaker is an idiot. I always
> > > > turn it off. And I seriously doubt that most people don't turn off
> > > > the main breaker.
> > >
> > > Well, you're seriously wrong. I've done my own electrical work for years
> > > and have worked on electrical projects with numerous other people, both
> > > residential and commercial and I've yet to run into anyone who shuts off
> > > the main when changing branch circuit breakers, including removing /
> > > installing bolt on breakers (Insulated nut driver and gloves of course).
> > > The snap in breakers that are the norm in residential and many
> > > commercial installations are specifically designed to be easy to remove
> > > and install on a live bus.
> > >
> > > Pete C.
> >
> > Well, the OP, who's an obvious novice, doesn't have to listen to any of
> > us. He can just do a simple google search for "replacing circuit
> > breaker". There are plenty of websites with info. He can see what
> > they recommend doing. And I'm sure he'll find that virtually every one
> > of them has turning off the main breaker as the first step. Then he
> > can decide what he thinks most people would do and make his own choice.
>
> That wasn't the point, my response was to you very incorrect "And I
> seriously doubt that most people don't turn off the main breaker". I
> have no doubt that any DIY home wiring book or online equivalent has a
> lawyer mandated "turn off the main breaker" warning regardless of the
> validity of such. I seriously doubt any lawyer has ever changed a
> circuit breaker either.
>
> Pete C.



You can claim it to be incorrect if you want. Neither one of us is
going to prove one way or the other what most people do. It's good
to see that you recognize that virtually every source you will find
online says to turn off the main breaker first. And I disagree that
it's just for legal reasons. I don't see anyone saying to turn off
the breaker to unplug an iron, which was the bogus analogy brought up
before.

And what exactly is the big downside in not turning off the main
breaker, which is staring you right in the face? Is it because your
crazy aunt is on life support in the attic? Or is it because you want
to show what a he man you are?

You can do what you want. My main problem is Toller replied to a
newbie saying "most people don't turn off the main breaker when
changing a circuit breaker." IMO, that comes pretty close to
suggesting that the newbie should just go ahead and do that too, as
it's no big deal for anybody to do it that way.


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