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Finding where the electrical line is broken Donna 10-15-2007
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Posted by G Wood on October 15, 2007, 10:27 am
> Hi guys!
>
> About two years ago, we finished (to be precise, we hired a contractor to
> finish) our breezeway, turning it into a room. After the renovation was
> complete, we discovered that the outlet on the interior wall, and it's
> matching outlet on the garage wall, and our porch light post, are now
dead.
>
> It's been two years, obviously this isn't a pressing problem, but geez,
I'd
> love to have that porch light back. Any suggestions as to how to figure
> this out? The renovation consisted of wallboarding over the exterior
walls
> of the breezeway (e,g, we didn't open up the wall where the fault must
lie -
> between the interior and the first exterior (garage) plug. We did take
the
> ceiling down to the studs, but iirc, there was no wiring there.
>
> Can I safely assume that the fault lies in the wall between the
> breezeway-cum-office, and the garage, rather than anywhere in the wire
> between the breezeway/office and the front porch?
>
> How do I tackle this?
>
> And, erm... considering it's two years after the fact, and realizing this
is
> a bit late to be asking... is there any risk of fire with the dead wiring
in
> the walls?
>
> As always, thanks for your kind assistance. Help me Obi-Wan! You're my
> only hope! (Well, my only hope other than calling an electrician and
> opening up the finished walls. Eek.)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Donna
>
Romex is very tough stuff, so unless there was work done with a saws-all or
such after the finishing work, it will be a connection issue. First step
would be to check the outlets that have failed. If you know the most
upstream (first on the circuit from breaker box), check to ensure it isn't a
bad outlet. Get a circuit tester and see if the hot wire has juice. If so,
then the outlet could be faulty and not only is it non-functional, it is
blocking current from travelling to the next outlet on the circuit. If not,
then you need to work upstream from there. One of the junction boxes will
have a bad connection, you just need to pray it's accessible.

This assumes there are other plugs/lights on the circuit that DO work, and
that it isn't a bad circuit breaker in the box. I just figured you checked
for that already.
Cheers



PexSupply PEX Tools 468x60
Posted by Donna on October 15, 2007, 1:59 pm


Thanks, guys.

> Romex is very tough stuff, so unless there was work done with a saws-all
> or
> such after the finishing work, it will be a connection issue. First step
> would be to check the outlets that have failed. If you know the most
> upstream (first on the circuit from breaker box), check to ensure it isn't
> a
> bad outlet.

There are three outlets (counting the porch light as an "outlet" for the
purposes of this post) that have failed. No other outlets in the house are
dead (and yes, to the gentleman who asked, they did work, directly before
the renovation).


From your (your plural that is.) kind responses, it seems that the three
dead outlets are at the end of a circuit, since everything else works. The
interruption must begin at the first dead plug (which is in the office). I
have, actually, pulled the wiring out and looked at it. Everything that I
saw looks to be correctly connected. But as you all have cleverly
ascertained, I'm not an electrician. :)

> Get a circuit tester and see if the hot wire has juice. If so,
> then the outlet could be faulty and not only is it non-functional, it is
> blocking current from travelling to the next outlet on the circuit. If
> not,
> then you need to work upstream from there. One of the junction boxes will
> have a bad connection, you just need to pray it's accessible.

I'll get a circuit tester. The plug next up the line is also in the
office, and works fine, so I suspect you've figured out the problem.
Something seems to be wrong with the first dead plug, and either there is a
loose connection, or there is an interruption of some kind, and either way,
it's a pretty simple thing for an electrician to fix. Is that correct?

>
> This assumes there are other plugs/lights on the circuit that DO work, and
> that it isn't a bad circuit breaker in the box.

That is a correct assumption. The circuit breaker is fine, and every other
plug in the house works, including the one that connects to the first dead
plug box.

> I just figured you checked
> for that already.

Never assume. :) But yes, I did check that. Beyond that point, though,
I needed some guidance. Thanks.

Donna



Posted by TimR on October 15, 2007, 2:43 pm

> Never assume. :) But yes, I did check that. Beyond that point, though,
> I needed some guidance. Thanks.
>
> Donna

I think you are assuming that the easiest way to fix it is find where
it is broken and reconnect it.

That will be true if it is just a loose connection in a junction box
that is easily accessible.

But I've run into more of these where it was a whole lot simpler just
to run a new wire out to where you need it.

also, there are ways to put a signal onto the wire and trace how far
it goes. But it takes some equipment and skill.



Posted by RBM on October 15, 2007, 2:56 pm
unfortunately, you have no way to determine how the daisy chain of wiring
runs, but barring a cut cable inside of a closed wall, you want to try to
find the first dead outlet on that circuit, or the last live outlet on that
circuit. A loose conductor on the input of the former and a loose conductor
on the output of the latter



>
>
> Thanks, guys.
>
>> Romex is very tough stuff, so unless there was work done with a saws-all
>> or
>> such after the finishing work, it will be a connection issue. First step
>> would be to check the outlets that have failed. If you know the most
>> upstream (first on the circuit from breaker box), check to ensure it
>> isn't a
>> bad outlet.
>
> There are three outlets (counting the porch light as an "outlet" for the
> purposes of this post) that have failed. No other outlets in the house
> are dead (and yes, to the gentleman who asked, they did work, directly
> before the renovation).
>
>
> From your (your plural that is.) kind responses, it seems that the three
> dead outlets are at the end of a circuit, since everything else works.
> The interruption must begin at the first dead plug (which is in the
> office). I have, actually, pulled the wiring out and looked at it.
> Everything that I saw looks to be correctly connected. But as you all
> have cleverly ascertained, I'm not an electrician. :)
>
>> Get a circuit tester and see if the hot wire has juice. If so,
>> then the outlet could be faulty and not only is it non-functional, it is
>> blocking current from travelling to the next outlet on the circuit. If
>> not,
>> then you need to work upstream from there. One of the junction boxes
>> will
>> have a bad connection, you just need to pray it's accessible.
>
> I'll get a circuit tester. The plug next up the line is also in the
> office, and works fine, so I suspect you've figured out the problem.
> Something seems to be wrong with the first dead plug, and either there is
> a loose connection, or there is an interruption of some kind, and either
> way, it's a pretty simple thing for an electrician to fix. Is that
> correct?
>
>>
>> This assumes there are other plugs/lights on the circuit that DO work,
>> and
>> that it isn't a bad circuit breaker in the box.
>
> That is a correct assumption. The circuit breaker is fine, and every
> other plug in the house works, including the one that connects to the
> first dead plug box.
>
>> I just figured you checked
>> for that already.
>
> Never assume. :) But yes, I did check that. Beyond that point,
> though, I needed some guidance. Thanks.
>
> Donna
>
>



Posted by Marilyn & Bob on October 15, 2007, 3:10 pm
It's not necessarily the first dead outlet on the circuit that is the
problem. The break (disconnected wire) could easily be in the last live
outlet in the chain (power comes in to the outlet, but wire leading out to
the first dead one is disconnected. Turn off the breaker that serves the
non working outlets. Then check in the boxes of the other outlets that go
off with that breaker off. Good chance you'll find a disconnected wire
there.
--
Peace,
BobJ

> unfortunately, you have no way to determine how the daisy chain of wiring
> runs, but barring a cut cable inside of a closed wall, you want to try to
> find the first dead outlet on that circuit, or the last live outlet on
> that circuit. A loose conductor on the input of the former and a loose
> conductor on the output of the latter
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, guys.
>>
>>> Romex is very tough stuff, so unless there was work done with a saws-all
>>> or
>>> such after the finishing work, it will be a connection issue. First
>>> step
>>> would be to check the outlets that have failed. If you know the most
>>> upstream (first on the circuit from breaker box), check to ensure it
>>> isn't a
>>> bad outlet.
>>
>> There are three outlets (counting the porch light as an "outlet" for the
>> purposes of this post) that have failed. No other outlets in the house
>> are dead (and yes, to the gentleman who asked, they did work, directly
>> before the renovation).
>>
>>
>> From your (your plural that is.) kind responses, it seems that the three
>> dead outlets are at the end of a circuit, since everything else works.
>> The interruption must begin at the first dead plug (which is in the
>> office). I have, actually, pulled the wiring out and looked at it.
>> Everything that I saw looks to be correctly connected. But as you all
>> have cleverly ascertained, I'm not an electrician. :)
>>
>>> Get a circuit tester and see if the hot wire has juice. If so,
>>> then the outlet could be faulty and not only is it non-functional, it is
>>> blocking current from travelling to the next outlet on the circuit. If
>>> not,
>>> then you need to work upstream from there. One of the junction boxes
>>> will
>>> have a bad connection, you just need to pray it's accessible.
>>
>> I'll get a circuit tester. The plug next up the line is also in the
>> office, and works fine, so I suspect you've figured out the problem.
>> Something seems to be wrong with the first dead plug, and either there is
>> a loose connection, or there is an interruption of some kind, and either
>> way, it's a pretty simple thing for an electrician to fix. Is that
>> correct?
>>
>>>
>>> This assumes there are other plugs/lights on the circuit that DO work,
>>> and
>>> that it isn't a bad circuit breaker in the box.
>>
>> That is a correct assumption. The circuit breaker is fine, and every
>> other plug in the house works, including the one that connects to the
>> first dead plug box.
>>
>>> I just figured you checked
>>> for that already.
>>
>> Never assume. :) But yes, I did check that. Beyond that point,
>> though, I needed some guidance. Thanks.
>>
>> Donna
>>
>>
>
>



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