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Flashing for a dutch gutter nmbexcuse 07-21-2007
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Posted by on July 21, 2007, 10:25 pm
I have a dutch gutter system around the edge of the roof, In order to
fix some problems I have two roofers suggested that I have a metal cap
fabricated (an inverted U-shaped continuous cap that will go on top of
the fascia header and will have a drip edge on one side, the other
side will connect to the inside of the gutter and be "bulled" over (am
I spelling it right? "bull"?).

What the two roofers disagree on is how to attach the galvanized metal
cap to the fascia header. One suggested just drill roofing nails
every six inches from the top through the metal cap to the fascia.
The other said this is guarantee leak because the roofing screw holes
will be leaks every six inches in about six months. The original
roofer says this is not a problem as the roofing screws have a rubber
washer underneath that will seal it, the second roofer says the rubber
will break down under the Miami sun in no time, and should use screws
to fasten it from the sides, and then "bull" over it, I am wondering
if it's really possible to bull over screw heads won't it break the
rubber membrane easily?

Thanks,

MC


Posted by Aardvark on July 22, 2007, 8:51 am
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 19:25:58 -0700, nmbexcuse wrote:

> I have a dutch gutter system around the edge of the roof, In order to
> fix some problems I have two roofers suggested that I have a metal cap
> fabricated (an inverted U-shaped continuous cap that will go on top of
> the fascia header and will have a drip edge on one side, the other side
> will connect to the inside of the gutter and be "bulled" over (am I
> spelling it right? "bull"?).
>
> What the two roofers disagree on is how to attach the galvanized metal
> cap to the fascia header. One suggested just drill roofing nails every
> six inches from the top through the metal cap to the fascia. The other
> said this is guarantee leak because the roofing screw holes will be
> leaks every six inches in about six months. The original roofer says
> this is not a problem as the roofing screws have a rubber washer
> underneath that will seal it, the second roofer says the rubber will
> break down under the Miami sun in no time, and should use screws to
> fasten it from the sides, and then "bull" over it, I am wondering if
> it's really possible to bull over screw heads won't it break the rubber
> membrane easily?
>
> Thanks,
>
> MC

Perhaps the following may help you with your final decision.
http://www.eurekamodern.com/dutch%20gutters.htm

HTH

Aardvark

--
Registered Linux User 413057.
Both Mandriva 2007.1 and Ubuntu 7.04
You can have it all. My empire of hurt.

Liverpool F.C.-more European Cups than all
the other English teams put together :-)

Posted by on July 22, 2007, 5:19 pm
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 19:25:58 -0700, nmbexcuse wrote:
> > I have a dutch gutter system around the edge of the roof, In order to
> > fix some problems I have two roofers suggested that I have a metal cap
> > fabricated (an inverted U-shaped continuous cap that will go on top of
> > the fascia header and will have a drip edge on one side, the other side
> > will connect to the inside of the gutter and be "bulled" over (am I
> > spelling it right? "bull"?).
>
> > What the two roofers disagree on is how to attach the galvanized metal
> > cap to the fascia header. One suggested just drill roofing nails every
> > six inches from the top through the metal cap to the fascia. The other
> > said this is guarantee leak because the roofing screw holes will be
> > leaks every six inches in about six months. The original roofer says
> > this is not a problem as the roofing screws have a rubber washer
> > underneath that will seal it, the second roofer says the rubber will
> > break down under the Miami sun in no time, and should use screws to
> > fasten it from the sides, and then "bull" over it, I am wondering if
> > it's really possible to bull over screw heads won't it break the rubber
> > membrane easily?
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > MC
>
> Perhaps the following may help you with your final
decision.http://www.eurekamodern.com/dutch%20gutters.htm
>
> HTH
>
> Aardvark
>
> --
> Registered Linux User 413057.
> Both Mandriva 2007.1 and Ubuntu 7.04
> You can have it all. My empire of hurt.
>
> Liverpool F.C.-more European Cups than all
> the other English teams put together :-)

Thanks for the information. It depresses me...thanks!


Posted by RicodJour on July 22, 2007, 11:32 am
On Jul 21, 10:25 pm, nmbexc...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I have a dutch gutter system around the edge of the roof, In order to
> fix some problems I have two roofers suggested that I have a metal cap
> fabricated (an inverted U-shaped continuous cap that will go on top of
> the fascia header and will have a drip edge on one side, the other
> side will connect to the inside of the gutter and be "bulled" over (am
> I spelling it right? "bull"?).
>
> What the two roofers disagree on is how to attach the galvanized metal
> cap to the fascia header. One suggested just drill roofing nails
> every six inches from the top through the metal cap to the fascia.
> The other said this is guarantee leak because the roofing screw holes
> will be leaks every six inches in about six months. The original
> roofer says this is not a problem as the roofing screws have a rubber
> washer underneath that will seal it, the second roofer says the rubber
> will break down under the Miami sun in no time, and should use screws
> to fasten it from the sides, and then "bull" over it, I am wondering
> if it's really possible to bull over screw heads won't it break the
> rubber membrane easily?

There should be no visible fasteners of any sort. It should be
attached with concealed sheet metal cleats that interlock with the
hemmed edge of the cap.
http://www.copper.org/applications/architecture/arch_dhb/flashings_copings/counterflashing.html

It's actually an easier way to do it and you won't have to worry about
leaking and/or visible fasteners.

R


Posted by on July 22, 2007, 5:38 pm
> On Jul 21, 10:25 pm, nmbexc...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have a dutch gutter system around the edge of the roof, In order to
> > fix some problems I have two roofers suggested that I have a metal cap
> > fabricated (an inverted U-shaped continuous cap that will go on top of
> > the fascia header and will have a drip edge on one side, the other
> > side will connect to the inside of the gutter and be "bulled" over (am
> > I spelling it right? "bull"?).
>
> > What the two roofers disagree on is how to attach the galvanized metal
> > cap to the fascia header. One suggested just drill roofing nails
> > every six inches from the top through the metal cap to the fascia.
> > The other said this is guarantee leak because the roofing screw holes
> > will be leaks every six inches in about six months. The original
> > roofer says this is not a problem as the roofing screws have a rubber
> > washer underneath that will seal it, the second roofer says the rubber
> > will break down under the Miami sun in no time, and should use screws
> > to fasten it from the sides, and then "bull" over it, I am wondering
> > if it's really possible to bull over screw heads won't it break the
> > rubber membrane easily?
>
> There should be no visible fasteners of any sort. It should be
> attached with concealed sheet metal cleats that interlock with the
> hemmed edge of the
cap.http://www.copper.org/applications/architecture/arch_dhb/flashings_co...
>
> It's actually an easier way to do it and you won't have to worry about
> leaking and/or visible fasteners.
>
> R

Thanks RicodJour. This link is very useful - I saved it. I am trying
to think about my situation...so far talked to a few roofers who all
insisted using screws, may be I need to find a sheet metal expert to
do the job, not sure.

Let me show a picture - this is a photo of my dutch gutter:

http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/gutter/?action=view&current=P1000992-1.jpg

Here is a cross section drawing of it - not to scale but I tried to
show the problem:

http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w67/143house/gutter/?action=view&current=gutterschematic-1.jpg

In the drawing, The blue hatched areas are the fascia and fascia
headers, there is an existing galvanized sheet metal (show in green)
that folds over the fascia half way on the left, then another sheet
metal flashing (also in green) folds over from the right. Why they
were not one piece I don't know, but they were screwed into the fascia
from the top (shown in yellow) every six inches. In orange us an
asphalt membrane that covers partially the inside face of the gutter
and most of the gutter.

Now, I have leaks in a few places, the asphalt gutter membrane is
deteriorating, the yellow screw is partly corroded, the seal between
the two metal pieces are not tight in several spots.

I was thinking I could remove the yellow screws and join the two sheet
metal somehow with the cleats approach you suggested, but there are
holes every six inches for both and that would be a problem.

Now, I am thinking the ultimate solution is to fabricate a sheet metal
that looks like what is drawn in the image in red. A continuous
seamless gutter in sheet metal, corner joints might be tricky, and it
will probably be outrageously expensive to make in one piece, since my
gutter run is 35' x 50' rectangular, a total of 170 linear feet with
four corners. I still need a rubber membrane over it I think, to join
it with the concrete tiles and to dampen the noise of the rain.

Any thoughts?

MC







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