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Flickering/dimming lights

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Flickering/dimming lights Tony B. 01-09-2007
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Posted by Tony B. on January 9, 2007, 6:32 pm


Hi all,

I have a newer home built in 2003 with a 200 amp service. I have an
espresso machine that has a PID controller installed on it... The
controller switches the water boiler power on and off about once a
second to maintain a certain boiler temperature in the machine...

The small espresso machine appliace has a 1100w boiler.. the appliance
draws 8-10amps. When the PID controller flips the boiler power of this
device on and off in 1 second intervals, I notice all the incandescant
lights in my house tend to pulsate along with the power switching from
this small 8-10 amp device...

The device is plugged into a 20 amp circuit. There are only 2 outlets
on this circuit, and the other outlet is not used...

Now please also understand that the "pulsating" is very hard to
notice... it is more pronounced in the lighting runs furthest from my
electrical panel where it is just barely noticeable. I just happened
to put two and two together a few days after I started using this PID
device when I was in the shower one morning and barely awake.. I
thought it was just me at first but on further investigation, linked it
up with the on/off cycle of the espresso machine. On my can lights in
the kitchen (a run closer to my panel), I really have to concentrate to
actually notice it. I probably would not notice if it were not for the
pulsating rythmic effect generated by the once per second switching.

On other lighting close to the panel, it is either hardly noticable or
non-existant.

Is it common or acceptable for lighting on other circuits to feel the
effects of a small device such as this? Is this something I need to be
concerned about or is it just a minor annoyance...

Thanks for any advice you can offer..

Tony B.


Posted by RBM on January 9, 2007, 6:42 pm


If turning on motors like vacuums or oil burners, well pumps, or 120 volt
heating devices like hair dryers, etc also causes this dimming,on circuits
other than the ones that these devices are connected to, I would have the
neutral connections to your service equipment checked


> Hi all,
>
> I have a newer home built in 2003 with a 200 amp service. I have an
> espresso machine that has a PID controller installed on it... The
> controller switches the water boiler power on and off about once a
> second to maintain a certain boiler temperature in the machine...
>
> The small espresso machine appliace has a 1100w boiler.. the appliance
> draws 8-10amps. When the PID controller flips the boiler power of this
> device on and off in 1 second intervals, I notice all the incandescant
> lights in my house tend to pulsate along with the power switching from
> this small 8-10 amp device...
>
> The device is plugged into a 20 amp circuit. There are only 2 outlets
> on this circuit, and the other outlet is not used...
>
> Now please also understand that the "pulsating" is very hard to
> notice... it is more pronounced in the lighting runs furthest from my
> electrical panel where it is just barely noticeable. I just happened
> to put two and two together a few days after I started using this PID
> device when I was in the shower one morning and barely awake.. I
> thought it was just me at first but on further investigation, linked it
> up with the on/off cycle of the espresso machine. On my can lights in
> the kitchen (a run closer to my panel), I really have to concentrate to
> actually notice it. I probably would not notice if it were not for the
> pulsating rythmic effect generated by the once per second switching.
>
> On other lighting close to the panel, it is either hardly noticable or
> non-existant.
>
> Is it common or acceptable for lighting on other circuits to feel the
> effects of a small device such as this? Is this something I need to be
> concerned about or is it just a minor annoyance...
>
> Thanks for any advice you can offer..
>
> Tony B.
>



Posted by Tony B. on January 10, 2007, 12:21 am



RBM remove this wrote:
> If turning on motors like vacuums or oil burners, well pumps, or 120 volt
> heating devices like hair dryers, etc also causes this dimming,on circuits
> other than the ones that these devices are connected to, I would have the
> neutral connections to your service equipment checked

I have a microwave oven in the kitchen that is on a different circuit
than the espresso machine... I had my daughter start and stop the
microwave every second or so while I watched the lights in the
bathroom..

I get the same effect from the microwave powering on and off... very
very subtle "flicker", more like a very slight dimming and return to
normal brightness within in a few milliseconds.. the lights never
flicker to competely off then on.. just a very minimal dimming for a
few milliseconds. I really have to concentrate to see it. The lights
always return to full brighness once the appliance is running. Same
with the espresso machine.. If I switch the boiler heater to full on,
it makes the lights "dim" for that millisecond only at the start of the
heating element... the lights are at full brighness when full on.

In the case of the espresso machine, the power cycling in a regular
pattern once a second or so and makes this dimming more noticeable.

If not for the rythmic nature of the dimming, I'd never notice it's
ocurring.

My Garbage disposal also causes my lights in the house to dim slightly
when I first flick it on as well.. but more noticeably than the
espresso machine, and it's on it's own 20 amp circuit.. Lights dim
very slightly for a 1/2 a second then back to normal once the disposal
is running... I guess I never even noticed that either but I'm sure it
was happening all the time.

Wouldn't that be somewhat normal behavior, even for a 200 amp service?
I'm hoping so.. but now that I'm noticing it maybe I'm just getting
paranoid... if not for the pulsating effect of this appliance, I would
never have given any of it a second thought.

Maybe I don't even need to worry about it... like I said it's hardly
noticeable, and always returns back to normal once the appliance is
operating. Definately better than my old house with a 100 amp
service.. Am I off base here? Does anyone think I need to have this
checked by an electrician?

Tony B.


Posted by RBM on January 10, 2007, 7:19 am


Motor loads will typically cause a slight dimming due to their high starting
current, and depending upon the size of your electric service, the distance
you are from the transformer feeding your service, and the electrical demand
on your service at the time this occurs, the dimming may be more pronounced.
It doesn't sound like you necessarily have a problem, but you may want to
contact the manufacturer to see if this is a common complaint



>
> RBM remove this wrote:
>> If turning on motors like vacuums or oil burners, well pumps, or 120 volt
>> heating devices like hair dryers, etc also causes this dimming,on
>> circuits
>> other than the ones that these devices are connected to, I would have the
>> neutral connections to your service equipment checked
>
> I have a microwave oven in the kitchen that is on a different circuit
> than the espresso machine... I had my daughter start and stop the
> microwave every second or so while I watched the lights in the
> bathroom..
>
> I get the same effect from the microwave powering on and off... very
> very subtle "flicker", more like a very slight dimming and return to
> normal brightness within in a few milliseconds.. the lights never
> flicker to competely off then on.. just a very minimal dimming for a
> few milliseconds. I really have to concentrate to see it. The lights
> always return to full brighness once the appliance is running. Same
> with the espresso machine.. If I switch the boiler heater to full on,
> it makes the lights "dim" for that millisecond only at the start of the
> heating element... the lights are at full brighness when full on.
>
> In the case of the espresso machine, the power cycling in a regular
> pattern once a second or so and makes this dimming more noticeable.
>
> If not for the rythmic nature of the dimming, I'd never notice it's
> ocurring.
>
> My Garbage disposal also causes my lights in the house to dim slightly
> when I first flick it on as well.. but more noticeably than the
> espresso machine, and it's on it's own 20 amp circuit.. Lights dim
> very slightly for a 1/2 a second then back to normal once the disposal
> is running... I guess I never even noticed that either but I'm sure it
> was happening all the time.
>
> Wouldn't that be somewhat normal behavior, even for a 200 amp service?
> I'm hoping so.. but now that I'm noticing it maybe I'm just getting
> paranoid... if not for the pulsating effect of this appliance, I would
> never have given any of it a second thought.
>
> Maybe I don't even need to worry about it... like I said it's hardly
> noticeable, and always returns back to normal once the appliance is
> operating. Definately better than my old house with a 100 amp
> service.. Am I off base here? Does anyone think I need to have this
> checked by an electrician?
>
> Tony B.
>



Posted by Pop` on January 10, 2007, 8:13 pm


Tony B. wrote:
> RBM remove this wrote:
>> If turning on motors like vacuums or oil burners, well pumps, or 120
>> volt heating devices like hair dryers, etc also causes this
>> dimming,on circuits other than the ones that these devices are
>> connected to, I would have the neutral connections to your service
>> equipment checked
>
> I have a microwave oven in the kitchen that is on a different circuit
> than the espresso machine... I had my daughter start and stop the
> microwave every second or so while I watched the lights in the
> bathroom..
>
> I get the same effect from the microwave powering on and off... very
> very subtle "flicker", more like a very slight dimming and return to
> normal brightness within in a few milliseconds.. the lights never
> flicker to competely off then on.. just a very minimal dimming for a
> few milliseconds. I really have to concentrate to see it. The lights
> always return to full brighness once the appliance is running. Same
> with the espresso machine.. If I switch the boiler heater to full on,
> it makes the lights "dim" for that millisecond only at the start of
> the heating element... the lights are at full brighness when full on.
>
> In the case of the espresso machine, the power cycling in a regular
> pattern once a second or so and makes this dimming more noticeable.
>
> If not for the rythmic nature of the dimming, I'd never notice it's
> ocurring.
>
> My Garbage disposal also causes my lights in the house to dim slightly
> when I first flick it on as well.. but more noticeably than the
> espresso machine, and it's on it's own 20 amp circuit.. Lights dim
> very slightly for a 1/2 a second then back to normal once the disposal
> is running... I guess I never even noticed that either but I'm sure
> it was happening all the time.
>
> Wouldn't that be somewhat normal behavior, even for a 200 amp service?
> I'm hoping so.. but now that I'm noticing it maybe I'm just getting
> paranoid... if not for the pulsating effect of this appliance, I would
> never have given any of it a second thought.
>
> Maybe I don't even need to worry about it... like I said it's hardly
> noticeable, and always returns back to normal once the appliance is
> operating. Definately better than my old house with a 100 amp
> service.. Am I off base here? Does anyone think I need to have this
> checked by an electrician?
>
> Tony B.

Not off base at all; perfectly normal situation.



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