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Floating a 3/4" Solid Hardwood Floor Over Above Grade Concrete?

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Floating a 3/4" Solid Hardwood Floor Over Above Grade Concrete? lefebvre 12-19-2006
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Posted by Kay Lancaster on December 23, 2006, 5:42 pm


>
> I use a 24"x24"x 3/4" foam padding product I got from an auto supply
> store. It does trap moisture underneath (house built in 1945) so I stand
> the pads, one each in front of lathe and TS, up on edge when I am
> vacuuming and leave them up until time to use them again.

In a lab with concrete floors (and no moisture barrier beneath), I used the
heavy black "welcome mats" with rubber fingers in front of each major work
area. I turned the mats upside down so there was some air circulation under
the mat, and I had a solid surface to stand on. Worked quite well.

Kay


Posted by dpb on December 26, 2006, 7:29 pm



resrfglc wrote:
> "I use livestock padding "
>
> I was pricing that at Tractor Supply and bought some of those 24" square
> foam interlocking sections at Big Lots (6 for $12) to serve immediately.
>
> But the concern I have is that they may hold the moisture beneath and create
> a layer of mold between concrete and "livestock pads" which appear
> non-porous.
>
> Do you ever check beneath them to see if anything's growing there?
...

Specifically, I mentioned...

> > Possible alternative would be the perforated cushioned pads for a
> > walking surface. I use livestock padding as it's significantly cheaper
> > than most sold as comfort pads.

But, I don't have them in a basement, so if it's particularly damp I
suppose it _could_ be a problem. But, in the shop I only place them in
the places where I normally stand frequently, like in front of the
tablesaw, bench, etc., etc. Consequently, they're easy enough to flip
over and move if want one somewhere else temporarily. The particular
ones I was thinking of aren't solid, either, so that the amount of
moisture entrapped wouldn't be that much (again, unless it were
_really_ damp). They have about a 50% or more open spacing. Does mean
they collect the sawdust in the holes, but as they're not that heavy,
as noted above, all it takes is flipping one over to sweep. Most of
the time the shop vac w/ the floor sweep tool is enough, anyway,
though.

HTH...

OBTW, they were even cheaper than the solid ones by almost the 50%
factor so I gather they're basically priced on the amount of material
since they're mostly an artificial rubber, they're pretty much tied to
petro prices. I also have a thin, salvaged truck bed liner that I
didn't want in the truck that came w/ the used truck I bought that I've
tossed on the floor in front of the chopsaw bench -- it isn't nearly as
comfortable as the others, but even it helps noticeably both for softer
standing and not so cold in winter.


Posted by Swingman on December 20, 2006, 7:17 am



> Is this a crazy idea?

For most builders (at least in this area), perhaps. Mainly because it is a
departure from a method that _has_ stood the test of time, and one with well
known and relatively easy/cost effective solutions to problems that may
arise in the future for both the builder and homeowner.

For you, that does not mean that it won't work, but that only time will
tell.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/19/06



Posted by Epictitus on December 20, 2006, 8:12 am


Why not consider a floating floor product i.e. engineered wood floor? The
finishes available are durable (probably more durable than finish in place
floors) and the seams can be tight and near invisible. And it goes in very
fast. Use a good quality underlay.


> Thanks for the tips. It seems that many installation provisions
> recomended boil down to a nail down type installation, either over a
> plywood subfloor over concrete, or the use of screeds. However, what
> about my orignal idea of actually "floating" it?
>
> Here is what I did on my test room:
>
> 1) My house is over 5 years old and the concrete is dry as its ever
> gonna be. It tested well.
> 2) I laid out a poly/foam vapor barrier over the entire space, with 12"
> overlaps and is taped using 3m blue tape.
> 3) I glued each plank of the 3/4" solid wood flooring to its neighbor
> via the tung and groove.
> 4) left a 1/2" space around the entire perimeter of the room.
>
> Thats it. The floor is floating much like an engineered product would
> be installed, but is a solid 3/4" plank floor (3" wide). The room has
> been going good for over a year now. Has seen all the seasons.
>
> Is this a crazy idea?
>
> Swingman wrote:
>>
>> > I am interested in floating a solid hardwood plank floor (3/4" x 3").
>> > Has anyone successfully done this?
>>
>> Absolutely ... around here (Gulf Coast) hardwood floors are routinely
>> installed on concrete slab foundations thusly:
>>
>> The concrete floor is first sealed with a layer of hot tar.
>>
>> 1" - 1 1/2" "screeds" (ripped SYP 2 x 4's are commonly used) are then
>> placed
>> on top of the tar about 12", or less, apart.
>>
>> The hardwood floor planks are then laid perpendicular to the screeds and
>> nailed to them, leaving approximately 1/2" - 3/4" room for expansion
>> along
>> all walls.
>>
>> The expansion gap is then covered partially by the baseboard and
>> completely
>> by the shoe molding.
>>
>> Hardwood floors done in this manner on concrete slabs generally survive
>> better in this climate than hardwood floors laid on the subfloor of a
>> crawlspace foundation.
>>
>> --
>> www.e-woodshop.net
>> Last update: 12/19/06
>



Posted by dpb on December 20, 2006, 9:40 am



lefebvre@iwavesolutions.com wrote:
> Thanks for the tips. It seems that many installation provisions
> recomended boil down to a nail down type installation, either over a
> plywood subfloor over concrete, or the use of screeds. However, what
> about my orignal idea of actually "floating" it?
>
> Here is what I did on my test room:
>
> 1) My house is over 5 years old and the concrete is dry as its ever
> gonna be. It tested well.
> 2) I laid out a poly/foam vapor barrier over the entire space, with 12"
> overlaps and is taped using 3m blue tape.
> 3) I glued each plank of the 3/4" solid wood flooring to its neighbor
> via the tung and groove.
> 4) left a 1/2" space around the entire perimeter of the room.
>
> Thats it. The floor is floating much like an engineered product would
> be installed, but is a solid 3/4" plank floor (3" wide). The room has
> been going good for over a year now. Has seen all the seasons.
>
> Is this a crazy idea?
...

That's _ONE_ year for a flooring material that can last 200 or more --
not a very long time yet.

What I see as potential issues --

1. The tongue and groove of strip flooring aren't made to fit to a
close tolerance for a glue joint. You don't mention what you used as
the glue, but I would be quite surprised if you can find a way that
these joints will last for a long period of time w/o eventually failing
at the joint. Remember, this is potentially a multiple-lifetime
flooring material and you've seen the results of your experiment for
only _one_ year so far.

2. For a large floor, you don't have any way to prevent movement
between boards over time other than the above glue joint -- rarely (as
in never) have I seen strip flooring which didn't need at least some
persuasion when initially being laid to close the joints and for a
large area I think you'll run into problems of a very high
rejection/wastage rate if you require every piece to be absolutely true
its entire length in order to pull joints tight during the
installation. The supplier will not think these pieces out of spec as
they would work fine w/ recommended installation techniques so this
will raise cost.

3. You don't say, but I'm assuming you didn't finish four sides (top,
bottom, two ends -- sides obviously can't be if gluing). Thus, as w/ a
convential strip floor, you still have three of the four sides
available for moisture movement. Over one year, maybe you got by, over
a long-haul I don't expect you to be so lucky. Finishing the
bottom/ends might help a little, but finishes don't stop moisture,
transfer, they slow it down.

Overall, I think you're risking a pretty sizable investment on an
unproven method of installation when proven methods are available. If
it were something that would be relatively easy to fix later, I'd say
"sure, give it a shot", but once this is down in an entire house, _if_
it does fail, you've got a real mess on your hands plus quite an
expense. I'm w/ the other poster who suggested if you want a floating
floor, buy a product designed to be installed that way.

It's your house and your money, but I'm not that kind of a risk-taker.

IMO, YMMV, $0.02, etc., etc., etc., ... :)


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