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French drain help..... chrisexv6 04-17-2007
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Posted by chrisexv6 on April 17, 2007, 3:18 pm


>
>
>
>
yard is higher than my yard by about 3'. His property
> > > > slopes away from his house and towards my house. The grading around
> > > > my foundation on that side is not correct (i.e. its pretty much level)
> > > > so the water from his property ends up against my foundation during a
> > > > bad rain (like what we just got in the Northeast).
>
> > > ...
>
> > > Is this the natural/original grade or was the house next door built
> > > after yours and the drainage changed? If the latter, it may be
> > > possible to require the neighbor to resolve the problem.
>
> > > Guy bought empty lot next to us and tried the same trick -- finally
> > > took a letter from the lawyer to really get his attention, but he had
> > > to rearrange the initial idea for his driveway drainage to not
> > > impinge.
>
> > > It depends on local zoning rules/requirements and what the local
> > > attitude towards enforcement of same, but in general it's a tenet that
> > > new construction can't change runoff to the detriment of existing.
>
> > Nope the houses were built at the same time. After chatting with my
> > neighbor he explained to me that the previous owner (of my house)
> > actually built the side of our house UP to what it is now (at best, it
> > might be a 4" rise over a 20' run from my neighbors house) As it is,
> > I cant go up very much more, the siding of the house is about 6" off
> > the ground now, didnt want to get the yard within 4", so I can add
> > another 2" height and Ill have to grade it to a steeper slope, but I
> > dont care.....cant use the yard in that area anyway, and its more
> > important to stay dry.
>
> > Id love to force someone else to fix it for me :) but alas Im on my
> > own with this one (unless I choose to hire it out, but the machine is
> > coming to my house for another project, figured Id just do it myself
> > if I could).
>
> In that case, I'm w/ Norminn that what I'd go for rather than trying
> the french drain as the only techniqe is to build a berm between to
> deflect the runoff away from the house and if needed in addition, a
> gravel-bed channel to carry the runoff. That was actually a
> significant portion of the solution between myself and the neighbor I
> spoke of before.
>
> If you try the french drain, there's a lot of water capacity needed
> and from afar it's hard to advise on how much or what would be
> needed. Depending on the slope and what soil and weather conditions
> are like where you are, it's possible simply a shallow channel can be
> seeded w/ grass and/or ground cover and be able to hold.

Thanks for the suggestions.

The only reason I immediately thought "french drain" was because I
figured (possibly wrongly) that it would have more water carrying
capability.

Seeing as how I need to re-grade from my foundation, I can probably re-
grade to a point 10' from my foundation, and then just have a drop off
of about 3" or so. That would qualify as a "swale", but I wouldnt be
able to run that ridge all the way to the back of my property (we do
use the back yard on that side of the house). It would re-direct the
water but eventually Id run out of ridge/swale, probably not far
enough away from the house. However, I might be able to gradually
lower the "ridge" into flat ground.

The amount of water we get usually is not an issue. We've had good
size downpours already this year and not had a problem. During
extreme circumstances, however, it becomes one. Extreme being 5" of
rain in a 10 hour period (this weekend) or 19" of rain over a 9 day
period (2 years ago). I went outside during the storm and could see
the issue.........water was puddled right up against my foundation.
Since water doesnt travel uphill (very well anyway :) ) correcting the
grading at the foundation would probably correct 85 or 90% of the
issue. I will definitely put a gravel covered channel at the bottom
of the new grading (does that make the new grading a "swale"? or does
a swale have to involve some sort of ridge that the water would run up
against?).......while i was digging, my thought was to drop pipe into
the gravel channel, so that it would help the water that does go in,
get out faster. This "french drain" would then be the "first line of
defense" for the water, and the foundation grading would be the second
line........presumably the foundation grading being the more important
of the two.

-Chris


Posted by Norminn on April 17, 2007, 7:51 pm


My reason for suggesting putting in some kind of landscape feature with
a berm is that a a rise of a couple of inches might be enough to divert
water that runs down from your neighbor. It would be exceedingly easy
(on a normal sized lot) to lay down that much soil and keep it in place
with sod or other plants. You would need to figure out where the water
will go if you divert it.

We had lots of small problems in the lawn at our condo that I fiddled
with. One was that after many years of running edgers along the same
line, there was quite a hump of lawn along the building with a ditch
next to it. In some places, it had exposed sprinkler pipes that would
then get run over by the mower. In some places I just hit it with a
strong stream of water - the grass stayed in place and the dirt went
into the ditch. Wasted some water :o) I found concrete doughnuts 6"
down, with no protection of sprinkler heads that hubby had to keep
fixing. Landscape problems sometimes have simple solutions.

We also had a great deal of erosion behind our seawall - not visible in
places because the sod was so healthy it covered the tunnels between the
washouts - kind of dangerous to walk on. That was fixed by putting some
filter fabric behind the weep-holes in the seawall, gravel behind it,
and filled up with soil.

You may need French drains, but that is a major project. If soil is
saturated, from continuous rain, they might not do any good, but I
really don't know.

Posted by hallerb@aol.com on April 17, 2007, 8:59 pm


> My reason for suggesting putting in some kind of landscape feature with
> a berm is that a a rise of a couple of inches might be enough to divert
> water that runs down from your neighbor. =A0It would be exceedingly easy
> (on a normal sized lot) to lay down that much soil and keep it in place
> with sod or other plants. =A0You would need to figure out where the water
> will go if you divert it.
>
> We had lots of small problems in the lawn at our condo that I fiddled
> with. =A0One was that after many years of running edgers along the same
> line, there was quite a hump of lawn along the building with a ditch
> next to it. =A0In some places, it had exposed sprinkler pipes that would
> then get run over by the mower. =A0In some places I just hit it with a
> strong stream of water - the grass stayed in place and the dirt went
> into the ditch. =A0Wasted some water :o) =A0I found concrete doughnuts 6"
> down, with no protection of sprinkler heads that hubby had to keep
> fixing. =A0Landscape problems sometimes have simple solutions.
>
> We also had a great deal of erosion behind our seawall - not visible in
> places because the sod was so healthy it covered the tunnels between the
> washouts - kind of dangerous to walk on. =A0That was fixed by putting some
> filter fabric behind the weep-holes in the seawall, gravel behind it,
> and filled up with soil.
>
> You may need French drains, but that is a major project. =A0If soil is
> saturated, from continuous rain, they might not do any good, but I
> really don't know.

lay landscape fabric first, then a layer of rock, then perforated
drain pipe, then more rock, layer of small rock, landscape fabric,
then cover with dirt.

dont install drainpipe without landscape fabrick or dirt will soon
infiltrate and clog drain lines.

you could create a natural catch basin, add landscape drain and
seperate line to daylight somewhere.

that way excess surface water has a place to go.

its best to overbuild this system or otherwise in 5 or 10 years you
will be doing it again.

a little extra cost now can save lots of work later!


Posted by chrisexv6 on April 18, 2007, 8:12 am


>
>
>
> > My reason for suggesting putting in some kind of landscape feature with
> > a berm is that a a rise of a couple of inches might be enough to divert
> > water that runs down from your neighbor. ?It would be exceedingly easy
> > (on a normal sized lot) to lay down that much soil and keep it in place
> > with sod or other plants. ?You would need to figure out where the water
> > will go if you divert it.
>
> > We had lots of small problems in the lawn at our condo that I fiddled
> > with. ?One was that after many years of running edgers along the same
> > line, there was quite a hump of lawn along the building with a ditch
> > next to it. ?In some places, it had exposed sprinkler pipes that would
> > then get run over by the mower. ?In some places I just hit it with a
> > strong stream of water - the grass stayed in place and the dirt went
> > into the ditch. ?Wasted some water :o) ?I found concrete doughnuts 6"
> > down, with no protection of sprinkler heads that hubby had to keep
> > fixing. ?Landscape problems sometimes have simple solutions.
>
> > We also had a great deal of erosion behind our seawall - not visible in
> > places because the sod was so healthy it covered the tunnels between the
> > washouts - kind of dangerous to walk on. ?That was fixed by putting some
> > filter fabric behind the weep-holes in the seawall, gravel behind it,
> > and filled up with soil.
>
> > You may need French drains, but that is a major project. ?If soil is
> > saturated, from continuous rain, they might not do any good, but I
> > really don't know.
>
> lay landscape fabric first, then a layer of rock, then perforated
> drain pipe, then more rock, layer of small rock, landscape fabric,
> then cover with dirt.
>
> dont install drainpipe without landscape fabrick or dirt will soon
> infiltrate and clog drain lines.
>
> you could create a natural catch basin, add landscape drain and
> seperate line to daylight somewhere.
>
> that way excess surface water has a place to go.
>
> its best to overbuild this system or otherwise in 5 or 10 years you
> will be doing it again.
>
> a little extra cost now can save lots of work later!

Overbuilding is good :)

But I didnt want to go too crazy, in case something I add effects
something that is already there (i.e. draining the gutter runoff into
the same trench as the French drain....would the second pipe from the
gutter interfere with the operation of the french drain pipe).

The french drain pipe will be open to daylight, about 60' away, down a
hill. So I should get good gravity flow. I might be able to use the
berm idea for some of that 60' run, which would help keep the water
over the french drain area, and give it a chance to get out (in the
case of torrential downpours). The only question I have at this point
is if I should tap the gutters into the same pipe, run another pipe in
the same trench, or run a separate trench for the gutter pipe.

BTW, what depth are you suggesting for the french drain? I was
thinking 24" at its highest....with a pitch of 1/4" per foot, the
depth where it sees daylight would be about 40" or so. Could the
pitch be lowered to 1/8" per foot? I think I saw that suggested, but
again, overbuilding is better than underbuilding.

-Chris


Posted by Goedjn on April 18, 2007, 2:40 pm



>Overbuilding is good :)
>
>But I didnt want to go too crazy, in case something I add effects
>something that is already there (i.e. draining the gutter runoff into
>the same trench as the French drain....would the second pipe from the
>gutter interfere with the operation of the french drain pipe).
>
>The french drain pipe will be open to daylight, about 60' away, down a
>hill. So I should get good gravity flow. I might be able to use the
>berm idea for some of that 60' run, which would help keep the water
>over the french drain area, and give it a chance to get out (in the
>case of torrential downpours). The only question I have at this point
>is if I should tap the gutters into the same pipe, run another pipe in
>the same trench, or run a separate trench for the gutter pipe.
>
>BTW, what depth are you suggesting for the french drain? I was
>thinking 24" at its highest....with a pitch of 1/4" per foot, the
>depth where it sees daylight would be about 40" or so. Could the
>pitch be lowered to 1/8" per foot? I think I saw that suggested, but
>again, overbuilding is better than underbuilding.
>
>-Chris


well, you can use the same pipe for the landscape drain and
the downspout drain, as long as it's big enough. for both.
To figure that out, you could estimate the maximum amount of
water you expect to have to move per minute. Or you could just
go with a 30" culvert, so you've got a big enough pipe for
wild animals, and small children, and a weapons cache.

In any case, bury it deep enough to be below the frostline,
if any.

You'll want to build a spreader dam or rockfall or
something at the outflow, or it will
build you a nice gulley in a year or so.



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