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Posted by Richard J Kinch on February 14, 2005, 3:39 am
George Eberhardt writes:
> As far as I can see, the installations are so bad
> that there is no point in paying for insulation.
Yours is a typical misunderstanding.
Garages are cost-effective because they control humidity, not temperature.
The real enemy to your car is a condensing atmosphere, which a garage
mostly eliminates, even if unheated and even if uninsulated. Ordinary jamb
seals and panel seals work fine to eliminate infiltration of damp outside
air.
The amortized cost of a garage is less than the amortized cost of corrosion
to your ungaraged-vs-garaged car, for typical cases of "garage" and "car".
So it typically *costs* you money *not* to have a garage.
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Posted by Joseph Meehan on February 14, 2005, 6:21 pm
Richard J Kinch wrote:
> George Eberhardt writes:
>
>> As far as I can see, the installations are so bad
>> that there is no point in paying for insulation.
>
> Yours is a typical misunderstanding.
>
> Garages are cost-effective because they control humidity, not
> temperature. The real enemy to your car is a condensing atmosphere,
> which a garage mostly eliminates, even if unheated and even if
> uninsulated. Ordinary jamb seals and panel seals work fine to
> eliminate infiltration of damp outside air.
>
> The amortized cost of a garage is less than the amortized cost of
> corrosion to your ungaraged-vs-garaged car, for typical cases of
> "garage" and "car".
>
While you generally will save on insurance and maybe increase resale
value and may protect the paint from sun damage with a garage; in the snow
belt, you will generally cause more corrosion damage with a garage. Keeping
the car below the freeze point will keep the salt and water inactive.
Putting it in a garage, which will generally be warmer, will warm it above
the freeze point and corrosion will start.
> So it typically *costs* you money *not* to have a garage.
--
Joseph Meehan
26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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Posted by Richard J Kinch on February 15, 2005, 1:29 am
Joseph Meehan writes:
> Putting it in a garage, which will generally be warmer, will warm it
> above the freeze point and corrosion will start.
An unheated garage will not be thawed with outside freezing more than a few
days per year, for one season. The differential is a few degrees and the
outside ambient must be within that narrow range. Depends on the local
climate how often this is the case.
But a garage *will* avoid a condensing atmosphere, for many, many days per
year, all year long.
The "freezing avoids corrosion" thesis also is questionable. Condensing vs
non-condensing has to be many times more effective than freezing vs thawed,
as regards not promoting corrosion.
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Posted by Joseph Meehan on February 15, 2005, 2:56 pm
Richard J Kinch wrote:
> Joseph Meehan writes:
>
>> Putting it in a garage, which will generally be warmer, will warm it
>> above the freeze point and corrosion will start.
>
> An unheated garage will not be thawed with outside freezing more than
> a few days per year, for one season. The differential is a few
> degrees and the outside ambient must be within that narrow range.
> Depends on the local climate how often this is the case.
This really depends on a number of factors. However you need to
consider that the car when put back into the garage is going to contain a
lot of heat that will warm the garage. In my experience that very often
brings it above freezing.
>
> But a garage *will* avoid a condensing atmosphere, for many, many
> days per year, all year long.
>
> The "freezing avoids corrosion" thesis also is questionable.
> Condensing vs non-condensing has to be many times more effective than
> freezing vs thawed, as regards not promoting corrosion.
I disagree here as well, although again that may be dependent on the
local conditions. When a car is driven into a garage wet, the garage tends
to hold in the moisture for an extended period so often even on a nice warm
dry day the inside of a garage is still damp as the dry air can not remove
the moisture.
Again however I would caution anyone from reading too much into this
part of the issue. I don't believe the difference between garage or not
garage is a major corrosion issue with cars. When it is a noticeable
factor, I believe it may go either way. There are just too many individual
differences to draw any certain conclusions.
--
Joseph Meehan
26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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Posted by Richard J Kinch on February 16, 2005, 4:54 am
Joseph Meehan writes:
> When a car is driven into a garage wet, the garage tends
> to hold in the moisture for an extended period so often even on a nice
> warm dry day the inside of a garage is still damp as the dry air can
> not remove the moisture.
Come on. We're talking about outdoors, soggy wet with dew nearly every
night, vs a garage, perhaps more or less humid, but rarely condensing.
> Again however I would caution anyone from reading too much into
> this
> part of the issue. I don't believe the difference between garage or
> not garage is a major corrosion issue with cars. When it is a
> noticeable factor, I believe it may go either way. There are just too
> many individual differences to draw any certain conclusions.
Park your car outside, it gets wet through-and-through by condensing
vapor intrusion nearly every night. That's murder for corrosion.
I've lived with and without garages for a while. No doubt in my mind of
the value of garaging.
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