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Garage Short Circuit? MJR 08-15-2005
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Posted by MJR on August 22, 2005, 8:56 pm


SUCCESS!

I tested the circuit breaker, no problem there

I tested the wire exiting the house, no problem there - tested with a
bulb not a meter

I tested some outlets in the garage with a bulb, very dim light -
orange glow was all I got.

I went back to the garage and tried to wrap my head around the wiring,
where did it come into the garage from the underground conduit.
after a couple days of an hour here and there, I decided it was time to
break into the wall and find the junction from the house. I picked the
wall, based on my understanding of the wiring, got out my saw, and then
wifey came to look, she said "wait, isn't there something there? I
checked and indeed there was a junction box hidden in the wall under a
faceplate, covered and hidden behind a couple years worth of house
discards that get stored in the garage.
I removed the faceplate, tested the wires (always turning off the
cicuit breaker before touching wires...) , same problem, dim bulb.
Then, I saw it, a spare/unused wire in the bundle, what if
I swapped the spare with the neutral or hot wire from the house? would
it work? was just one wire damaged?
In short yes, the neutral one was bad, now the spare (blue) is
functioning as neutral, no wires to pull , no yard to dig up

life is good, thanks all



Posted by Joseph Meehan on August 23, 2005, 12:41 pm


MJR wrote:

That test result with the dim light, leads me to believe you have/had a
floating neutral. I can't quite get into my head your wiring design, so I
am not all that sure that you fixed the problem or just changed it.
Floating neutrals can be dangerous. I once had a boss who burned down his
prior photo studio because of a floating neutral.


> SUCCESS!
>
> I tested the circuit breaker, no problem there
>
> I tested the wire exiting the house, no problem there - tested with a
> bulb not a meter
>
> I tested some outlets in the garage with a bulb, very dim light -
> orange glow was all I got.
>
> I went back to the garage and tried to wrap my head around the wiring,
> where did it come into the garage from the underground conduit.
> after a couple days of an hour here and there, I decided it was time
> to break into the wall and find the junction from the house. I picked
> the wall, based on my understanding of the wiring, got out my saw,
> and then wifey came to look, she said "wait, isn't there something
> there? I checked and indeed there was a junction box hidden in the
> wall under a faceplate, covered and hidden behind a couple years
> worth of house discards that get stored in the garage.
> I removed the faceplate, tested the wires (always turning off the
> cicuit breaker before touching wires...) , same problem, dim bulb.
> Then, I saw it, a spare/unused wire in the bundle, what if
> I swapped the spare with the neutral or hot wire from the house? would
> it work? was just one wire damaged?
> In short yes, the neutral one was bad, now the spare (blue) is
> functioning as neutral, no wires to pull , no yard to dig up
>
> life is good, thanks all

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit




Posted by ldiddy on January 14, 2008, 4:20 pm
ldiddy had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Re-Garage-Short-Circuit-22733-.htm
:
I read the short circuit thread and I don't know if that's my problem or
not. My house electricity works, nothing in my garage works.
Suggestions? Estimated costs?


-------------------------------------
Jeff Wisnia wrote:

> Joseph Meehan wrote:

>> MJR wrote:
>>
>>>symptoms
>>>1. garage lights won't turn on
>>>2. garage door opener won't go up/down
>>>3. when light switch is off, garage opener sensors light up
>>>4. when light switch is on (lights don't go on), sensors go off
>>>5. Voltage tester shows 104 volts in all outlets in garage
>>>
>>>
>>>what should I do (besides calling an electrician)?
>>>
>>>the problem began soon after the first rains in 6 weeks
>>>
>>>the power to the garage is underground conduit from the house,
>>> under
>>>the yard to the garage.
>>
>>
>> For the moment, let's ignore that 104 Volts as I believe it is
>> a red
>> herring.
>>
>> Go check the circuit breakers, Is one tripped? I suspect not.
>> Now
>> check out all your GFIs. One or more of them should be protecting
>> your
>> garage. They may be in the garage, kitchen bath or breaker box.
>> It the
>> test and reset button on each one.
>>
>> If that gets you power, the 104V you found was only a very low
>> amp
>> induced current and you never would have been able to measure it
>> without
>> that digital meter you used.
>>
>>

> Joseph, I'm usually in agreement with you, but if there's enough
> current
> to light up the opener sensors I doubt that it's being provided by
> induced or capacitively coupled current. But, maybe if they are
> extremely low current devices there is a possibility of that happening.

> Nothing to be lost by following the steps you describe, they are
> certainly the simplest thing to start with, but I'll still put my money

> on a high resistance joint somewhere.

> That's assuming the OP's description and our understanding of what he
> means are correct, something that isn't always true on this newsgroup.
> <G>

> Jeff





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Posted by RBM on January 14, 2008, 4:33 pm
The first thing to do is find the junction box in the garage, where the
conduit comes into when it comes out of the ground, separate the feed wires
from the load wires and test them for proper voltage. If you don't have it,
check it at the other end of the conduit before it goes underground. This
will at least give you some idea of where the problem is



> ldiddy had written this in response to
> http://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Re-Garage-Short-Circuit-22733-.htm
> :
> I read the short circuit thread and I don't know if that's my problem or
> not. My house electricity works, nothing in my garage works.
> Suggestions? Estimated costs?
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> Jeff Wisnia wrote:
>
>> Joseph Meehan wrote:
>
>>> MJR wrote:
>>>
>>>>symptoms
>>>>1. garage lights won't turn on
>>>>2. garage door opener won't go up/down
>>>>3. when light switch is off, garage opener sensors light up
>>>>4. when light switch is on (lights don't go on), sensors go off
>>>>5. Voltage tester shows 104 volts in all outlets in garage
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>what should I do (besides calling an electrician)?
>>>>
>>>>the problem began soon after the first rains in 6 weeks
>>>>
>>>>the power to the garage is underground conduit from the house,
>>>> under
>>>>the yard to the garage.
>>>
>>>
>>> For the moment, let's ignore that 104 Volts as I believe it is
>>> a red
>>> herring.
>>>
>>> Go check the circuit breakers, Is one tripped? I suspect not.
>>> Now
>>> check out all your GFIs. One or more of them should be protecting
>>> your
>>> garage. They may be in the garage, kitchen bath or breaker box.
>>> It the
>>> test and reset button on each one.
>>>
>>> If that gets you power, the 104V you found was only a very low
>>> amp
>>> induced current and you never would have been able to measure it
>>> without
>>> that digital meter you used.
>>>
>>>
>
>> Joseph, I'm usually in agreement with you, but if there's enough
>> current
>> to light up the opener sensors I doubt that it's being provided by
>> induced or capacitively coupled current. But, maybe if they are
>> extremely low current devices there is a possibility of that happening.
>
>> Nothing to be lost by following the steps you describe, they are
>> certainly the simplest thing to start with, but I'll still put my money
>
>> on a high resistance joint somewhere.
>
>> That's assuming the OP's description and our understanding of what he
>> means are correct, something that isn't always true on this newsgroup.
>> <G>
>
>> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> ##-----------------------------------------------##
> Delivered via http://www.thestuccocompany.com/
> Building Construction and Maintenance Forum
> Web and RSS access to your favorite newsgroup -
> alt.home.repair - 267187 messages and counting!
> ##-----------------------------------------------##



Posted by Robert Barr on January 14, 2008, 6:56 pm
RBM wrote:
> The first thing to do is find the junction box in the garage, where the
> conduit comes into when it comes out of the ground, separate the feed wires
> from the load wires and test them for proper voltage.

... and test again, with a modest load applied (100-watt trouble light
or something similar).

I think the first guy who responded (Jeff) has it right.


If you don't have it,
> check it at the other end of the conduit before it goes underground. This
> will at least give you some idea of where the problem is

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