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HELP please: Replacing Lampholder fixture

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HELP please: Replacing Lampholder fixture PawsForThought 01-02-2007
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Posted by PawsForThought on January 2, 2007, 12:47 pm


I am replacing a pull chain lampholder fixture in my basement that's in
the ceiling. Next to that fixture is an electrical outlet (w/4
electrical plugs). Coming from the electrical outlet is a white and
black wire that comes into the same junction box as the ceiling
fixutre. So I removed the old fixture. I now have hooked up the new
fixture - white wires to silver screw, and red wire to brass screw.
Put a light bulb in and now the new fixture works. However, the
electrical outlets do not. I have the black and white wires from the
electrical outlet twisted together and then put one of those plastic
cap things on it. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I can't get
the electrical outlet to work. If anyone has any advice, it would be
very much appreciated. Many thanks.


Electric Radiant Heat 468x60
Posted by dpb on January 2, 2007, 2:29 pm



PawsForThought wrote:
> I am replacing a pull chain lampholder fixture in my basement that's in
> the ceiling. Next to that fixture is an electrical outlet (w/4
> electrical plugs). Coming from the electrical outlet is a white and
> black wire that comes into the same junction box as the ceiling
> fixutre. So I removed the old fixture. I now have hooked up the new
> fixture - white wires to silver screw, and red wire to brass screw.
> Put a light bulb in and now the new fixture works. However, the
> electrical outlets do not. I have the black and white wires from the
> electrical outlet twisted together and then put one of those plastic
> cap things on it. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I can't get
> the electrical outlet to work. If anyone has any advice, it would be
> very much appreciated. Many thanks.

Well, almost certainly the black and white shouldn't be connected
together and since doing so didn't create spitz'ensparkzen, apparently,
you must have disconnected the power feed into the outlet box from the
light fixture.

You don't say where the red wire came from, and apparently this isn't
switched or there wouldn't have been a chain pull, and there really is
a lot lacking in info.

But, one of the black (or red, maybe, if it was a three-wire cable, or
is that on the fixture?) has to be a supply "hot" and the white in the
same cable is the neutral (again, assuming "normal" 2-wire w/ or w/o
ground romex cable). The feed could be from either the outlet or to
the light first, that's indeterminate but best guess would be since
nothing bad happened when you tied what should be a hot and neutral
together it came to the light first, then on to the outlet from there.
What is needed is a feedthrough from whichever direction the feed is to
the other. But, if you don't have a switch in the circuit, then the
light is going to be always on.

My real advice is to either find somebody who knows enough to look at
the situation and do it or an electrician. The connecting of the black
and white together indicates a real lack of understanding. I'd
recommend in the interim to separate those two wires and cap them each
w/ a wire nut and leave it until get some on-site advice.

Although, maybe if you try to describe how the wires were originally
more specifically it would be possible to figure out what you actually
have.


Posted by PawsForThought on January 2, 2007, 3:05 pm


Thanks so much for your reply. What I have is this:

Junction box in ceiling. From that is 1 red wire, 2 white wires that
were twisted together, with a 3rd white wire from the light fixture.
All 3 of these white wires were twisted together and capped. There is
also 2 black wires coming out of that junction box and they're just
twisted together and capped.

Electrical outlets (4 outlets in 1 unit). This unit has a 2-wire
ground romex cable coming from it into the junction box.

When I removed the old light fixture, the white wire was connection to
the silver screw and the red wire was connected to the brass screw on
the fixture.

I know the black and white wires from the electrical outlet unit were
definitely twisted together. But somehow the red wire was maybe in the
mix?

Argh! I think you're right and I'll have to call an electrician. I
know it's probably something simple I'm missing.

Thanks again for your help. It is greatly appreciated!


Posted by avid_hiker on January 2, 2007, 3:50 pm



PawsForThought wrote:
> Thanks so much for your reply. What I have is this:
>
> Junction box in ceiling. From that is 1 red wire, 2 white wires that
> were twisted together, with a 3rd white wire from the light fixture.
> All 3 of these white wires were twisted together and capped. There is
> also 2 black wires coming out of that junction box and they're just
> twisted together and capped.

This is most likely your problem.....one of these blacks is most likely
to your outlets....and the other to another outlet somewhere you dont
know of that is not working. Blacks to the group of blacks....whites to
group of whites. and red to blacks.
>
> Electrical outlets (4 outlets in 1 unit). This unit has a 2-wire
> ground romex cable coming from it into the junction box.

Colors of these wires? More than likely black and white........trace
these....and be sure wires are hooked up white to white.......black to
black..and the red to black

> When I removed the old light fixture, the white wire was connection to
> the silver screw and the red wire was connected to the brass screw on
> the fixture.

This is correct


>
> I know the black and white wires from the electrical outlet unit were
> definitely twisted together. But somehow the red wire was maybe in the
> mix?

This is definetly WRONG!! The white to the group of whites.....and the
black to the blacks......the red to the group of blacks.


>
> Argh! I think you're right and I'll have to call an electrician. I
> know it's probably something simple I'm missing.
>

This is probably your safest bet.....dont want to read about you in the
morning paper.


Posted by dpb on January 2, 2007, 4:57 pm



avid_hiker wrote:
> PawsForThought wrote:
> > Thanks so much for your reply. What I have is this:
> >
> > Junction box in ceiling. From that is 1 red wire, 2 white wires that
> > were twisted together, with a 3rd white wire from the light fixture.
> > All 3 of these white wires were twisted together and capped. There is
> > also 2 black wires coming out of that junction box and they're just
> > twisted together and capped.
>
> This is most likely your problem.....one of these blacks is most likely
> to your outlets....and the other to another outlet somewhere you dont
> know of that is not working. Blacks to the group of blacks....whites to
> group of whites. and red to blacks.
> >
> > Electrical outlets (4 outlets in 1 unit). This unit has a 2-wire
> > ground romex cable coming from it into the junction box.
>
> Colors of these wires? More than likely black and white........trace
> these....and be sure wires are hooked up white to white.......black to
> black..and the red to black
>
> > When I removed the old light fixture, the white wire was connection to
> > the silver screw and the red wire was connected to the brass screw on
> > the fixture.
>
> This is correct
>
>
> >
> > I know the black and white wires from the electrical outlet unit were
> > definitely twisted together. But somehow the red wire was maybe in the
> > mix?
>
> This is definetly WRONG!! The white to the group of whites.....and the
> black to the blacks......the red to the group of blacks.

Well, when OP said he was sure of this and also threw a red into the
mix I got to wondering about whether one white was (an unmarked) return
from an unmentioned switch and/or if the red might even be a sign of a
three-way somewhere in the mix...'cause it still seems as though he
would have an "always on" light w/o the chain pull otherwise.

>
> >
> > Argh! I think you're right and I'll have to call an electrician. I
> > know it's probably something simple I'm missing.
> >
>
> This is probably your safest bet.....dont want to read about you in the
> morning paper.

Agree as w/o seeing and being able to trace it seems unlikely to
diagnose the actual situation correctly from afar...


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