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Posted by Kitep on August 1, 2007, 11:52 pm
> Since it is too hot to play outside I was stripping some wire in recycle
> box. It looked like some of the old 12 gauge was bigger than the new
> stuff. So I stripped exactly 1 foot of 12/2 wg 20 years old and 2-3 years
> old and weighed it on my postal scale. They sure as heck did not look the
> same or weight the same.
>
> As the insulation has gotten better and more heat resistant has the wire
> been down-sized?
I've had one experience where it seems like the old wire is thicker than new
wire. I had found a place in my crawl space where someone had spliced 2
wires together just by putting caps on them - just inches below the paper
backing of insulation. I put the connection inside a box, but this made one
of the wires too short and I had to replace it. Stripped of insulation, I
held the copper wire up against a couple of samples - it was thicker than 14
gauge, and about the same size as 12 gauge, so I used 12 gauge to replace
it. But then I saw the old wire had "14 gauge" stamped on it. So yes, I do
think some older wires are thicker than newer wires. Seems strange to me,
because copper is copper and should still be exactly the same over the
years.
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Posted by on August 2, 2007, 7:27 am
I have to agree with you. The insulation is stronger and thus
thinner. That's fine, but I do think the copper wire is thinner too,
and I dont understand how that could be. 12 gauge needs to BE 12
gauge. The only thing that I can think of, and this is just a
guess..... Modern wire is a TRUE 12 gauge. Copper is expensive these
days, whereas the older wire was not as precise, and as long as the
thinnest sections were 12 gauge, thicker sections were fine. Like I
said, just a guess.....
I dont think they can make wire thinner due to regulations. It's not
like lumber where a 2x4 is now 1.5x3.5 and 1/2" plywood is actually
7/16 or something like that. Actually, I still cant understand how
they can call 7/16 plywood HALF INCH, (there ought to be a law).
When it comes to dimension lumber I guess we are all so used to it
that we dont think twice about it, and the old TRUE 2x4 was rough,
whereas the new ones are planed.
I was getting off the topic there, but making wire thinner seems like
it would be a hazzard and the NEC would jump all over them
manufacturer. At the same time, I have noticed that some old wire is
thicker and have always wondered about this myself. As I said
earlier, all I can figure is that some of that older wire was actually
oversized. Oversized is safe, and back then copper was fairly cheap.
I should buy a micrometer and start checking some of it. Anyone else
have one and some old and new wire laying around? It would be
interesting to find out for sure, however I think my visuals are
pretty accurate as far as some of the older wire being thicker.
I have been a handyman for over 30 years, and done my share of
electrical work, so I know what I have seen.
The Handyman
On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 16:35:18 -0400, "Colbyt"
>Since it is too hot to play outside I was stripping some wire in recycle
>box. It looked like some of the old 12 gauge was bigger than the new stuff.
>So I stripped exactly 1 foot of 12/2 wg 20 years old and 2-3 years old and
>weighed it on my postal scale. They sure as heck did not look the same or
>weight the same.
>
>As the insulation has gotten better and more heat resistant has the wire
>been down-sized?
>
>Colbyt
>
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Posted by Kitep on August 3, 2007, 12:29 am
>I have to agree with you. The insulation is stronger and thus
> thinner. That's fine, but I do think the copper wire is thinner too,
> and I dont understand how that could be. 12 gauge needs to BE 12
> gauge. The only thing that I can think of, and this is just a
> guess..... Modern wire is a TRUE 12 gauge. Copper is expensive these
> days, whereas the older wire was not as precise, and as long as the
> thinnest sections were 12 gauge, thicker sections were fine. Like I
> said, just a guess.....
My guess it that they devised a better way to manufacture the wire, perhaps
with less micro-fissures, so that modern wire has less resistance than older
wire. Thus thinner wire can safely carry the same current. But that too is
just a guess...
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Posted by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tekkie=AE?= on August 8, 2007, 8:15 pm
Colbyt wrote:
> Since it is too hot to play outside I was stripping some wire in recycle
> box. It looked like some of the old 12 gauge was bigger than the new stuff.
> So I stripped exactly 1 foot of 12/2 wg 20 years old and 2-3 years old and
> weighed it on my postal scale. They sure as heck did not look the same or
> weight the same.
>
> As the insulation has gotten better and more heat resistant has the wire
> been down-sized?
>
> Colbyt
>
>
You may be right but maybe the old wire was not manuafactured to as
tight a specification. In other words it didn't matter to them if it
was a little big. I suppose the best way to measure is with a
micrometer and see if the new is less than specified in std's.
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