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Posted by Eric on December 3, 2005, 8:21 pm
I have a 5 year old Furnace/AC system (York). It was whatever the
builder selected, meaning it is the cheapest thing they could get away
with, and I didn't have any input in what they were going to use. The
furnace is gas - 80% efficient. The AC compressor is 10 SEER. Nothing
special at all. It is the cost of gas that has me thinking, plus
concerns that a year from now gas prices will be even higher, but
electricity is going up too...
I guess what I am wondering is whether it would pay to replace the AC
unit with a high-efficiency heat pump. Keep the gas furnace, but have
it configured to only run as a backup. I guess the first question is
whether I would be automatically required to replace the furnace at the
same time, or whether it would be possible and sensible to substitute a
new heat pump for an older AC system and keep the furnace the same.
Part of me wants to say that getting rid of a 5 year old AC compressor
is wasteful, but the thing is already wasteful as it is. Is there any
sensible use for a 5-year old compressor other than as a boat anchor?
Anyone else have any words of wisdom?
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Posted by CBHVAC on December 3, 2005, 9:02 pm
show/hide quoted text
> I have a 5 year old Furnace/AC system (York). It was whatever the builder
> selected, meaning it is the cheapest thing they could get away with, and I
> didn't have any input in what they were going to use. The furnace is
> gas - 80% efficient. The AC compressor is 10 SEER. Nothing special at
> all. It is the cost of gas that has me thinking, plus concerns that a
> year from now gas prices will be even higher, but electricity is going up
> too...
IF you have a Diamond 80, and an Olympian unit, they are not bad, but the
warrantys gone on the condensor.
And you are right...most builders tell us to put in the cheapest stuff we
have, unless its a high end home....thankfully, most are getting the picture
now and installing 14SEER units or better.
At least the ones we work with are.
show/hide quoted text
> I guess what I am wondering is whether it would pay to replace the AC unit
> with a high-efficiency heat pump. Keep the gas furnace, but have it
> configured to only run as a backup. I guess the first question is whether
> I would be automatically required to replace the furnace at the same time,
> or whether it would be possible and sensible to substitute a new heat pump
> for an older AC system and keep the furnace the same.
Its a fact...that the new 13SEER ruling is about to screw up alot of hacks,
and make homeowners miserable.
IF the original installer used a factory York coil, the coil can be made to
work with up to a 12 SEER only...and thats now obsolete..so..you are looking
at a new coil.
Most ANY brand, York included, requires different airflow than your current
furnace can provide, so thats out too.
You COULD get a 12 SEER unit, run a dual fuel control, and have the gas as
your second stage heat...we do it all the time...
show/hide quoted text
> Part of me wants to say that getting rid of a 5 year old AC compressor is
> wasteful, but the thing is already wasteful as it is. Is there any
> sensible use for a 5-year old compressor other than as a boat anchor?
Depending on your part of the country that you live, you may NEVER recoup
the difference in price savings by going to a higher SEER unit...and keep in
mind, you are not shopping SEER with a heat pump..you are shopping for the
highest HSPF number you can afford.
You put say....the top of the line York Affinity 16.5+ SEER unit on that
existing setup....and you still have about 10 SEER.
Match it properly, with a VS air handler and the right strips, and you get
the HSPF and SEER you paid for.
Now...as your logic goes, its a good idea to think higher performance and
savings...and I can tell you that you can save alot, but depending on your
area, use, and such, it might not pay off.
Im a York dealer, I have a 3 year old Olympian 14SEER unit..its about to get
changed out with a 14SEER Affinity..simply cause I can..LOL..but thats also
because I love the looks, and teh fact that I can put different panels on
it, and that includes ACC teams if I want..got to use it for
advertising..but again....shop around and remember, the install, DOES
matter.
show/hide quoted text
> Anyone else have any words of wisdom?
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Posted by SQLit on December 3, 2005, 9:42 pm
> > I have a 5 year old Furnace/AC system (York). It was whatever the
builder
show/hide quoted text
> > selected, meaning it is the cheapest thing they could get away with, and
> > didn't have any input in what they were going to use. The furnace is
> > gas - 80% efficient. The AC compressor is 10 SEER. Nothing special at
> > all. It is the cost of gas that has me thinking, plus concerns that a
> > year from now gas prices will be even higher, but electricity is going
> > too...
> IF you have a Diamond 80, and an Olympian unit, they are not bad, but the
> warrantys gone on the condensor.
> And you are right...most builders tell us to put in the cheapest stuff we
> have, unless its a high end home....thankfully, most are getting the
picture
show/hide quoted text
> now and installing 14SEER units or better.
> At least the ones we work with are.
> > I guess what I am wondering is whether it would pay to replace the AC
unit
show/hide quoted text
> > with a high-efficiency heat pump. Keep the gas furnace, but have it
> > configured to only run as a backup. I guess the first question is
whether
show/hide quoted text
> > I would be automatically required to replace the furnace at the same
time,
show/hide quoted text
> > or whether it would be possible and sensible to substitute a new heat
pump
show/hide quoted text
> > for an older AC system and keep the furnace the same.
> Its a fact...that the new 13SEER ruling is about to screw up alot of
hacks,
show/hide quoted text
> and make homeowners miserable.
> IF the original installer used a factory York coil, the coil can be made
> work with up to a 12 SEER only...and thats now obsolete..so..you are
looking
show/hide quoted text
> at a new coil.
> Most ANY brand, York included, requires different airflow than your
current
show/hide quoted text
> furnace can provide, so thats out too.
> You COULD get a 12 SEER unit, run a dual fuel control, and have the gas as
> your second stage heat...we do it all the time...
> > Part of me wants to say that getting rid of a 5 year old AC compressor
> > wasteful, but the thing is already wasteful as it is. Is there any
> > sensible use for a 5-year old compressor other than as a boat anchor?
> Depending on your part of the country that you live, you may NEVER recoup
> the difference in price savings by going to a higher SEER unit...and keep
> mind, you are not shopping SEER with a heat pump..you are shopping for the
> highest HSPF number you can afford.
> You put say....the top of the line York Affinity 16.5+ SEER unit on that
> existing setup....and you still have about 10 SEER.
> Match it properly, with a VS air handler and the right strips, and you get
> the HSPF and SEER you paid for.
> Now...as your logic goes, its a good idea to think higher performance and
> savings...and I can tell you that you can save alot, but depending on your
> area, use, and such, it might not pay off.
> Im a York dealer, I have a 3 year old Olympian 14SEER unit..its about to
get
show/hide quoted text
> changed out with a 14SEER Affinity..simply cause I can..LOL..but thats
also
show/hide quoted text
> because I love the looks, and teh fact that I can put different panels on
> it, and that includes ACC teams if I want..got to use it for
> advertising..but again....shop around and remember, the install, DOES
> matter.
> > Anyone else have any words of wisdom?
well stated
http://www.hvacopcost.com/
http://198.147.238.24/ac_calc/default.asp
A lot depends on what you spend for energy and how long you plan on staying
in your home.
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Posted by Eric on December 4, 2005, 12:01 am
CBHVAC wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> IF you have a Diamond 80, and an Olympian unit, they are not bad, but the
> warrantys gone on the condensor.
> And you are right...most builders tell us to put in the cheapest stuff we
> have, unless its a high end home....thankfully, most are getting the picture
> now and installing 14SEER units or better.
> At least the ones we work with are.
Probably only because they would now have trouble selling homes with the
bare minimum systems. Builders aren't exactly known for their altruism.
Not sure of the model names of the current equipment. Furnace is
P4HUB16N06401A, compressor is H1RA042S06D - from this and the manuals I
have a rough idea of what I currently have.
show/hide quoted text
> Its a fact...that the new 13SEER ruling is about to screw up alot of hacks,
> and make homeowners miserable.
> IF the original installer used a factory York coil, the coil can be made to
> work with up to a 12 SEER only...and thats now obsolete..so..you are looking
> at a new coil.
> Most ANY brand, York included, requires different airflow than your current
> furnace can provide, so thats out too.
> You COULD get a 12 SEER unit, run a dual fuel control, and have the gas as
> your second stage heat...we do it all the time...
I could, but it would probably be a lot of money for a minimal
increment. As you say though, it depends more on the HPSF for heating.
show/hide quoted text
> Depending on your part of the country that you live, you may NEVER recoup
> the difference in price savings by going to a higher SEER unit...and keep in
> mind, you are not shopping SEER with a heat pump..you are shopping for the
> highest HSPF number you can afford.
> You put say....the top of the line York Affinity 16.5+ SEER unit on that
> existing setup....and you still have about 10 SEER.
> Match it properly, with a VS air handler and the right strips, and you get
> the HSPF and SEER you paid for.
Good points.
show/hide quoted text
> Now...as your logic goes, its a good idea to think higher performance and
> savings...and I can tell you that you can save alot, but depending on your
> area, use, and such, it might not pay off.
> Im a York dealer, I have a 3 year old Olympian 14SEER unit..its about to get
> changed out with a 14SEER Affinity..simply cause I can..LOL..but thats also
> because I love the looks, and teh fact that I can put different panels on
> it, and that includes ACC teams if I want..got to use it for
> advertising..but again....shop around and remember, the install, DOES
> matter.
Heh - when you work in the field you have those kinds of options.
I guess what I really need to do is try and work out exactly how much I
really could save by doing this.
Anyways, thanks for your most informative response.
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Posted by TURTLE on December 3, 2005, 11:12 pm
This is Turtle.
I think you have spending some money on something no matter what it is.
It would be nice if you told what part of the country you lived in but
if not i will tell it both ways.
You taking out a $3,000.00 to $5,000.00 system to replace it with
another $5,000.00 to $8,000.00 system put you in the hole by $8,000.00
to $12,000.00 and your hoping to get this money back in Utility
savings. How long would you need to wait till you could get this
$8,000.00 to $12,000.00 back in a 20% saving in your utility bill as
they are right now and figuring in your money your hoping to get back
will double every 10 years. So in 10 years from now this $8K to $12K
will be $16K to $24K . these figure maybe high or low but the thought
is still there as to tring to get great sumes of money by way of
utility savings.
OH Yea, 1 to 5 years from now they will still be selling everything
they sell today and nothing changes as to can't get something by
looking before leaping.
I'm not saying not to do it or to change it but the ideal is your
changing a system out JUST for utility savings. That has never been a
good ideal for that reason alone. If your having system trouble or it
is old , Yes change it.
Also to get this money back you would have to cut your utility bill by
$133.00 a month every month for the next 5 years to get your money
back. Then your going to have to figure in Interest on your money too.
TURTLE
P.S. Really what is being said here think somemore before jumping.
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> selected, meaning it is the cheapest thing they could get away with, and I
> didn't have any input in what they were going to use. The furnace is
> gas - 80% efficient. The AC compressor is 10 SEER. Nothing special at
> all. It is the cost of gas that has me thinking, plus concerns that a
> year from now gas prices will be even higher, but electricity is going up
> too...